[merb]

well the problem is that less woman want to be programmers. (At least where I live) Which actually means that men are more present so if you have 50 programmers where 5 are good you only will have a pool of 5 woman programmers where maybe 1 is good. that actually leads to the data, which actually not says that woman can't program better or worse, it just says it's harder to find a good woman, because there are overall less woman in tech.

actually I also think that not only in germany near freiburg are less woman programmers, I'm pretty sure that MINT is still "not that cool" for woman. the number was raised the last years and still climbs but it's nowhere near a 50:50 sadly

[ubernostrum]

well the problem is that less woman want to be programmers

Would you like to explain why you think that happened? And why it's such a drastic turnaround from how things used to be?

(remember: in earlier days a much higher percentage of programmers and other computer-adjacent technical people were women, compared to today. The demographics we see today are a change from that, which cries out for explanation)

[merb]

Well hard questions. I think why more woman did computing in the early days, was because men did actually do war. so woman actually fulfilled many roles that men could not do because they either were far away or came back with injuries or maybe one leg, whatever and early computing probably did not have features for disabled people. fast forward a few years the war actually started to calm down, technology began to rise. and many more men seeked for a job, while there was a dramactic shift in jobs and that now woman did more work, it still was in a lot of men's brain that this is not typical so men did start to do the engineering jobs again and seen woman still as somebody who should do the household. this probably also meant that the whole parenting did raise their children in stereotypes (we still can see a lot of that today), which favored the social aspect of the woman and the engineering of the men. (Lego vs. Barbie, etc.) I think that is why now men do more mint jobs as of now and a shift in that is hardly seen, a lot of people still raise their kids as back in the days, girls get barbies and puppets and boys gets lego and other stuff that favors different aspects of life.

That's why I also think that the young life of children should be way more non stereotypical. we should stop giving our children different colors and different toys because of gender, that would start to stop thinking in genders.

From my personal standpoint, I have a niche (5 years old) and she actually wished herself a friend book, and I wanted to have one that is as neutral as possible. And I can tell, that this is not that easy. a lot of them sub 60%-70% do actually favor a gender, either with their art cover __or__ worse with their question. I think such a thing is definitv one of the reason why there was a shift and why there still is a shift/difference between what man do and what woman do. it's good that my niche does not get raised this way since my sister also helps her grow with other stuff (and she likes that stuff), like a workbench.

P.S.: I'm a guy and I hate it that a lot of people still think that girls needs to be raised with different toys. That is probably the starting point of discrimination and job inequality.

Edit: Well I think there are many more aspects why things are like they are, but this is probably one of the starting points and a big point that should be somewhat addressed.

[ubernostrum]

was because men did actually do war

The times when women were much more likely to be in computing were not only times when the western world was at war.

[merb]

well I think computing as we now of today started between 194x till 1990 and the internet grown at something like 96. and war including cold war was until the 80s and I came from germany and my father was at the army ("bundeswehr") in the 90s where they still seen the russians as an enemy. in our country woman did a lot from 54 to something like 70s they even rebuilt whole cities. while men still needed to find their way back into regular life. i'm not sure but after the 90s computing and engineering was already done by way more men.

[YeGoblynQueenne]

>> that actually leads to the data, which actually not says that woman can't program better or worse, it just says it's harder to find a good woman, because there are overall less woman in tech.

What data are you talking about?

[merb]

that many people think "can't find a good woman programmer". well it's wrong but as said from a bigger pool it's more likely to find the good ones.

[YeGoblynQueenne]

"Many people think" is not data.

[dboreham]

Ugh. FEWER.