[heywire]

Hopefully this pushes more and more restaurants towards using separate chip-reader (EMV) pinpad devices. I've noticed several area restaurants switching lately (Arby's, Wendy's), and I hope it continues. These devices use point-to-point encryption, meaning that even if the POS machine is comprimised, no sensitive card data can be stolen. The POS machine never sees raw card data.

[mmanfrin]

Chipreaders are terribly slow, I don't understand how they could not develop a secure payment system without 10-second~ delay times. My local grocery store installed new chip readers and within a week had taped over time in favor of the more-expensive but quicker stripe processing.

[saidajigumi]

Hilariously, using contactless EMV payment (i.e. Apple/Android Pay) with the same POS terminals is lightning fast.

But this gets filed as "infrastructure is hard". A related example: If you get a chance, try the IC card system used by the train and transit systems in Japan; they're delightful.[1] At peak rush-hour, commuters are darn near running through the (many) pay stations tapping through without breaking stride -- including display of remaining balance!

Yet, the relatively recent transit tap card system where I live is laughingly slow. At a much more modest walking pace, it's easy to pull away from the reader before it's confirmed the transaction. Seconds per commuter, for system that's considerably newer than the IC card system.

[mmanfrin]

I love Android Pay. If a place accepts it, I 100% use it over a card. It's near instantaneous, it's more secure (the merchant isn't getting my real card data), it's easy for me to audit, and it means I don't need my wallet when I go to the store.

[heywire]

Something to keep in mind is that Apple/Android Pay support both MSD (magnetic stripe data) and EMV contactless modes, which can result in different timings. EMV contactless also drops significant portions of the EMV contact requirements. This is why banks generally won't let you get cash back, or make large purchases on contactless, there's a trade off.

[rconti]

I've actually found it to be better; no tradeoffs.

I haven't tried cash back as I use credit cards rather than debit cards. I've used Apple Pay in the US, Canada, NZ, Australia, Germany, Sweden, and Denmark, and it's ALWAYS preferably to using the actual card, particularly for an American.

If you have a US based bank, even with EMV the bank prefers a signature, which means you have to sign the damn receipt. This is more inconvenient than doing so in the US because:

1. The merchants aren't used to it, so it's a surprise/hurdle 2. It's not common, so you have to sign an actual receipt, not an electric display 3. They don't seem to waive the signature requirement for small purchases ($25-$50) as they do in the US. So you're signing for EVERYTHING.

Magically, if you try to use your US-card-with-a-PIN (assuming you set one up) in an unmanned scenario like in a parking garage, SUDDENLY YOUR PIN WORKS! (quelle surprise!)

I also fell in love with the convenience of Apple Pay+Watch when I was skiing in Whistler; no need to take off my gloves, unzip a pocket, reach in, find, card, use card, sign receipt. Just a quick double-tap on the side button without even undoing my glove gauntlet, velcro closure around the wrist of my jacket, or any of my 5 layers of clothes (yes, it was cold).

Paywave was the most-commonly accepted in Australia of everywhere I've been recently, to the extent that they even tap your credit card to the machine first, assuming it will work, and are surprised when it doesn't. Yet they were VERY surprised by the watch, often saying they had never seen anyone use their watch before. I'm not sure if contactless+phone would have been as unexpected or not; I never tried.

[Veratyr]

Weirdly, I've only really noticed this in the US. Back in Australia where we've been using chips for about a decade, I rarely remember it taking more than a couple of seconds, certainly not 10.

We also have contactless payment on most of our credit cards (as in built into the card, not Android/Apple Pay) and support for it on ~90% of terminals as well though so it's not much used anymore.

[knz]

Likewise in New zealand. I've always heard the argument that the US is bigger so it's harder to change (for everything - POS, the metric system, any kind of regulation etc).

Even after a decade in the US it amuses me that NASA can run a fleet of vehicles on Mars, that the country produced places like silicon valley, and that American ideology is one of entrepreneurship/innovation but as a country we struggle with changes the rest of the world has decided are worth the effort.

It makes me wonder what the US would be like if we weren't still wasting huge sums of money on healthcare and credit card fraud etc!

Of course some may say that the US is what it is because of these things...

[microcolonel]

Well, it shouldn't amaze you. The telephone was literally invented in Canada, and we have the worst telco situation in North America; and that's really saying something.

I think the problem is inherent in early adoption. The people who buy the first version of the thing are happy to wait another couple versions before upgrading, because they already have something which is substantially similar to the upgrade. You see this with people comparing the telco situation in Ethiopia (which despite a terrible organizational model, and very little capital, is improving rapidly) to anywhere in the developed world doesn't make sense. If you have landlines and a cable TV infrastructure, 4G over the air will have less demand automatically.

[sanswork]

American card terminals pretty much universally suck compared to everywhere else in the western world so it's not that surprising to me.

According to staff at a few shops in my area when asked why they always ask if tap to pay is ok they said a lot of people still don't allow them to tap and insist on chip+pin still.

[kevin_thibedeau]

It's not done right unless there's a 1200 baud modem somewhere in the chain.

[Veratyr]

You mean in Australia? Yeah, I worked in retail while I lived there and it was pretty common. People seemed to think that using it would somehow make them more vulnerable to thieves for some reason. I even had friends who called the bank to exchange their card for one that didn't do contactless.

[sathackr]

The problem with them is they force another prompt, which takes time to read, comprehend, and respond to.

Prompt #1: Credit/Debit?

Prompt #2: PIN

Prompt #3: Would you like cash back

Prompt #4: The total is $xx.xx, ok?

This is time consuming, particularly for people who aren't as comfortable with electronics and pressing buttons. And on top of that, many times the terminals themselves are slow.

Pay-at-the pumps are even worse

Prompt #5: Are you a fuel perks member?

Prompt #6: Receipt yes/no?

Prompt #7: Would you like a car wash?

and they're often even slower, the buttons are often hard to press, or don't register a beep and have a delay before the machine responds, so you wind up pressing the same one twice. And most lack a 'backspace', the screens suck, man don't get me started....lol

[amenghra]

You can do EMV in under 4 seconds. Source: https://squareup.com/townsquare/weve-chipped-away-at-emv-tra... and http://www.digitaltransactions.net/news/story/With-an-Update...

[com2kid]

Walgreen's has lightening fast chip readers.

Everyone else, yeah, pretty slow.

I am surprised that apparently only 1 vendor has figured out how to make a good chip reader, and I am sad that apparently other retailers don't care enough to buy from that one vendor.

[bpicolo]

I've encountered a few that only took a second or two. No idea why most of them are slow as crap given that. The ones at Starbucks (and others by that company) are terribly slow

[acchow]

Have you used Square's chip reader? Wicked fast recently.

[heywire]

Unfortunately when you need the chip in the card to sign the transaction details before sending to the bank, validate the response from the bank, and all of the steps in between, it takes a lot of time. There is a ton of work going into making this process faster. Things like EMV Quick Chip and contactless EMV (tap and pay) are quicker, and should be coming to retailers in the US soon. Of course we also have the option of Apple/Android Pay, which is somewhere in the middle.

[toomuchtodo]

Would you suggest reporting a card lost to get a new number issued if it was used at one of these locations?

[heywire]

Definitely if you used a debit card, since it could take a couple days to get any fraudulent charges reversed. Probably less important if you used a credit card, since you'll not have to pay for those charges and they'll just send you a new card at that point. I guess it just depends on if you want to be inconvenienced now or later :)

I personally used my credit card at one of the affected stores, and I do not plan on calling in to have my card number changed. I'll just keep a close eye on my statements (that, and I have alerts sent to my phone via SMS for any charge over $0.01, so I'd know pretty quickly)

[toomuchtodo]

I have an Amex charge card with push notifications, so I'm going to let it ride. Thank you for the reply!

[heywire]

Amex is probably the company I'd trust the most to handle the situation. I've never been let down by their customer service.

[throwaway91111]

Not much point until they require chips for credit card charges.