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by PerfectDlite 3312 days ago
> That is probably why USSR had nuclear weapons

Blueprints stolen from USA.

> and space technology

_borrowed_ (wink, wink) from Germans.

4 comments

The USSR's nuclear espionage helped their bomb project, but it was not essential. They more used it to check their own work, and likely stopped some detours on the road. And if their space technology was "borrowed" from the Germans, so was the US's.
> The USSR's nuclear espionage helped their bomb project, but it was not essential.

Definitely! They've steal US nuclear documents just for laughs, comrade!

Tu-144 flew before Concord. Try to explain to some people that it's hard to get a pure copy running before the original :) - I'm not surprised anymore, they'd still insist Tu-144 is merely a copy.

When Project Apollo uses Yu. Kondratyuk's (A. Shargey) staging calculations of course that's not a copying of a critical part.

> Tu-144 flew before Concord.

"The aircraft was introduced into passenger service on 1 November 1977, almost two years after Concorde, because of budget restrictions."

Yes, they've managed to "overcame bourgeous West" with Tu-144, but because design and production was rushed - they got Paris air show crash, postponed operational services and generally bad design, forcing earlier retirement for Tu-144.

That isn't what I said. The steps necessary for making a bomb were known to Soviet scientists, the information stolen saved them some trouble of discovering which methods worked best. Valuable, but not essential.
> _borrowed_ (wink, wink) from Germans.

You can't be serious assuming Germany under fuhrer went close to satellites :) .

No however it is well known that the US and Russian missile projects benefited hugely from the knowledge and expertise of WW2 German rocket scientists.

The most prominent example been https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun#Involvement_...

Also do some reading around Operation Paperclip.

The Russians had similar programs.

That's almost like saying Newton _borrowed_ his works from unnamed linguists of the past who invented alphabet and writing.

Russians did get a huge boost in rocket tech from von Braun's works. However it was a long way to orbital carriers. After R-1 - a copy of V-2 - USSR made R-2 with better engines (more concentrated ethanol), separatable warhead and load-bearing tanks, then R-5 with even better engines and range, then switched to kerosene engines, practically building technology from scratch (engines, for example, used structure brazen to copper-based heat wall with milled cooling channels), multiple stages (did you see how R-7 does staging? It's a ballet in air), "tulpan" launch system, producing base for still flying Semyorka.

George Sutton, author of "History of Liquid Propellant Rocket Engines" mentiones that USSR spend quite a bit more perfecting engine technology than other countries. That's part of the reason why 26 years after dissolution of USSR the technology created there is practically used with modifications on modern successful launchers (including in USA).

In general, if you have a country with big population, economic and schools producing some Nobel prize-level scientists it's hard to defend the idea that nothing of value can be made there. That doesn't diminish USSR big shortcomings but the credit is certainly due where it is.

Regarding Operation Paperclip - did you read Chertok's memoirs, where he describes his part of the story (he participated in the hunting for specialists in Germany during 1945)?

> it's hard to defend the idea that nothing of value can be made there

So you can provide examples of those "values"? But not mythical Soviet microwave ovens in 1941, please.

I have a friend who's into alternative history and conspiracy theories. Our discussions so far come to the point of how hard it is to have an objective criteria for correctness. Right now many people can choose beliefs and afford to stick to them even if they aren't supported by reality - because that doesn't affect them much.

In a way, my answer to your question is "it depends". For somebody with "good enough" criteria of correctness I can provide examples.

You can't steal or borrow a product. What you ship is yours.
Sure. Good luck trying to sell iPhone copies.
Are there any? Making iPhone copies will probably be prohibitively expensive, otherwise China will already make those in numbers. Yes they did some really lame knockoffs but I doubt you can replicate "the iPhone".

HN seems to be really out of depth for you.

> Are there any?

Yes. A lot.

> Making iPhone copies will probably be prohibitively expensive, otherwise China will already make those in numbers.

According to iPhone 7 teardown [0] there's 3x difference in components price and retail price - $220 vs $649.

Do you think that everyone in the China and the world missed the opportunity to eat into that kind of margin?

[0] - https://9to5mac.com/2016/09/20/649-iphone-7-estimated-to-cos...

Man, the cold war is still alive in you, isn't it.