[GhotiFish]

I guess in the same way a farmer might listen to its cattle? A nasty disease or two would get fixed, nice food to keep them fed, but if they're telling the farmers "don't eat me" I can't imagine the farmers would be very receptive.

Likewise. Stop spying on me, stop advertising to me, stop pushing products I don't want on me, stop treating my computer like your personal playground.

None of this is going to gain traction. All of those are the point. No amount of listening will fix this.

[supernovae]

It is fixed. When you upgrade to RS2 it asks you about the services and you can disable them and you can disable automatic updates.

BTW, this isn't unique to MS.. phones update all the time and the concept of the phone is going to change.. soon you will have just one device that does everything. Are people going to complain that MS can't then do what Apple/Google do in regards to spying, updates & patches?

[valuearb]

LOL at comparing MSFT to Apple or Google in this regard. Googles whole business model is ad supported, in return you get good free software.

Apple actually fights to protect your privacy, when you pay them money for hardware they just try to make it work well for you, not advertiser. And their updates/reboots are optional.

MSFT takes your money, then doesnt protect your privacy AND sells you out to advertisers.

[supernovae]

I don't buy this argument. Its fully of fallacies and misconceptions.

Microsoft offers a very similar ecosystem.. You can use office online, One drive, bing.com, skype, Cortana, Outlook.com and many services free for use with advertising (or no advertising)

MS doesn't "take your money" either, you buy something with Windows 10 on it or you buy a mac with OSX..

iOS updates aren't usually optional, as they quickly spam the crap out of you to upgrade and stop allowing publishers to post apps for the old release ergo "forcing" upgrades.

Android has the inverse problem.. handsets never getting upgrade so people flock to versions that do and happily upgrade away..

which is why I don't understand anything you have said. :)

oh and MS doesn't sell your privacy data to advertisers..

[valuearb]

Correct, both MSFT and Apple force you to pay for your OS as part of your purchase, but Apple doesn't force you to disable ads.

That was the only part that was correct. Apple reminds users of critical updates, doesn't force. Apple allows every publisher to upgrade their apps (I'm an IOS dev), just don't try to link with outdated APIs. I have iOS 6 apps that still run fine without changes.

And you don't know what MSFT sells to advertisers.

[supernovae]

Apple does have "Ads". They're always asking you to upgrade to icloud on every device - my MacBook and my IPhone.That's about as annoying as "buy office 365 now"

MSFT does spell out what they share with advertisers the very same way Apple and Google do.

https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/

https://www.apple.com/privacy/manage-your-privacy/

https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/

[vetinari]

The thing is, when I wanted to use Windows, I didn't ask for "office online, One drive, bing.com, skype, Cortana, Outlook.com and many services". I wanted Windows, not additional baggage crammed down my throat.

[linza]

I assume "office online" means Office 365? If yes, how can I use it for free? Last time I checked there was only a free trial [1].

Microsoft does take my money--just because the cost for the OS is hidden in the hardware doesn't mean some fraction of that money isn't going to Microsoft, i.e. in the end I have to pay to use Windows. Windows 10 was not free either as advertised, since it required an older version to upgrade from.

Compared to Google's and Apple's offerings, Microsoft's do kinda look shitty.

[1] https://products.office.com/en-us/compare-all-microsoft-offi...

[supernovae]

Every company is out there to make money. This is non sequitur.

As far as product comparison, I prefer Office over google docs (And the link you posted is about their commercial offering).

office.com offers the online versions of office (web like google docs) and its as feature rich.

Also, lets be real.. You can get office 365 for up to 5 pcs for 99 a year and each account you link to it gets the extra benefits such as terabyte of onedrive and such, its not a bad deal at all.

[CydeWeys]

> you buy something with Windows 10 on it

This isn't true for many of us that build our own computers. I bought a boxed copy of Windows and installed it. It certainly didn't come with or on anything.

[supernovae]

If you're building a computer, google "windows 10 oem license" and use that to install with the downloadable iso - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

30 bucks in most stores..

or get licenses through visual studio benefits, schools or transfer from another PC you may be shutting down. It's not rocket science to save money if thats your biggest concern.

[jessaustin]

...soon you will have just one device that does everything.

That's already true, for people who only have a phone. In the long term, it's completely wrong. Today's "super"-devices will explode into a constantly-changing constellation, as soon as personal networking is ironed out. Future generations will laugh at caricatures of people today, who constantly tend to and obsess on one hunk of plastic to the exclusion of the wider world.

[supernovae]

as the IoT and "constellation" "explodes" we can only HOPE that includes auto-update.

[jessaustin]

Sure, but part of the process of "ironing out" local networks will be an easy way of categorizing what host gets what sort of connection to the internet. A pedometer built into a shoe needs very little access to anything.

[supernovae]

but it will need an update if it has a CVE and it shouldn't need humans to update it

[jessaustin]

In general one would say that, but there would be a category of local host that would mean "we don't trust this device to correctly update its firmware, so that action (and consequently most other network actions) is not allowed".