[thelsdj]

I definitely think that current DAWs are terrible at the composition stage of things, but I wouldn't really want to give up the ease of arrangement / sound design / mixing that they provide. Something that could be used for composition that fed MIDI into my existing DAW would be great.

[dharma1]

You can do a lot in Logic's environment. And also many DAW's have support for MIDI FX plugins

Not saying compositional aids couldn't be easier or have different UX paradigms, but there are tools in today's DAW's.

Would be pretty cool if Jacob Collier got together with a developer to write a compositional aid tool for harmonising.

[adamnemecek]

I'm definily targeting that workflow. What's your current mixing workflow?

[thelsdj]

Thinking about this even more, I feel like the composition could be represented as a series of transformations that go from simple to complex. So you start out with:

  * Track in C#Maj, 124BPM, 4/4
  * Chord progression I–V–vi–IV over 4 bars.
  * OK but rhythm is that current chord repeats on every beat like a stab
  * Timing should be early by half beat so it would be | I I I V| V V V vi| vi vi vi IV| IV IV IV I|
  * another transformation to adjust the voicing, etc
  * Then you can create a bass track from this that mirrors the lowest note but changes the rhythm, etc, etc etc,.

Any change along the way doesn't affect something else unless it should and then you're given a notice that you should check what was affected.

[buzzybee]

You may want to try out RapidComposer, Sundog Song Studio, or Odesi to get a sense of what that workflow entails right now. I bought each of those (two of them on sales), hoping I would come to terms with them, but they just don't work for me. It's mix of "the UX could be better", in some cases, but also some underlying consequences for complexity that show up when you're given a blank piano roll and every possible axis of music theory exposed as an affordance in the UI.

What's working for me right now? ChordPulse [0] which contains arranger keyboard style presets, plus a few options for sequencing and detailing the arrangement. Export to MIDI, add melodies and tweaks on top, and the song is ready. There are much more complicated versions of this formula around like Band in a Box, but they both have things I don't need, and aren't quite as good at this basic workflow.

[0] http://chordpulse.com

[adamnemecek]

Haha this is a central part of the app.

[thelsdj]

I tend to mix (and do everything as I go) in Ableton. I just got a Push 2 so I've been building out some templates and racks to try to skip some of the tedium of trying to explore chord/melodic ideas quickly.

I was reminded of this behemoth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndb339l81pU like the interface is terrible, but the DAW should basically know what kind of chord your playing and be able to make transformations to them.

I'm relatively new to producing in general, but one of my main issues with composing in Ableton is just not having easy way to reference the rest of my MIDI clips working on one of them. Or if I decide I want to change my chord progression or my voicing I then have to go and check every other clip to make sure they all match or at least work with the change.