[sosodaft]

Anecdotal: I moved to London for my first software engineering job nine months ago. The week after I signed my contract, the country voted Leave and my salary was literally worth $15k USD less overnight.

I'm going back to the US in two weeks for a new job. I'll be making roughly 66% more. Sure, part of that has to do with the fact that I have experience now. But dev salaries in London weren't great compared to the US even when the pound was strong.

Honestly, Europe's best hope for keeping tech talent from going to the US may be Donald Trump cracking down on visas.

[hacker_9]

But the pound is still stronger than the dollar, brexit hasn't changed that. Americans get paid more sure, but the cost of living is ridiculously higher, and you also have to basically take out another mortgage to afford your health service. Not to mention the work ethic is a lot worse in the US, you can expect to spend a lot more time in the office over there.

[no1youknowz]

I'm a Brit. Have you lived there?

I have lived in London for 10 years, had my own house. I have lived in the EU as well.

Having lived in the US for 3 years, and in various states. Here's what I found.

America Pros.

They get paid much more, and yes they work more hours. Which if done right, can lead to promotions and networking. Networking which leads to entrepreneurial-ship.

They have a much larger access to other entrepreneurs and entrepreneurial ecosystem.

They have more readily available ways of earning money. Earning $100 a day with a laptop in star bucks is possible. Much more opportunity.

They enjoy a much lower cost of living. Electricity, petrol (gas), food, takeaways, alcohol is much lower. Lets not forget taxes as well!

They enjoy much larger living accommodations compared to europeans and for less money.

They have better cell phone plans, with free calls and texts.

They have better access to weather. You can enjoy a nice climate in San Diego, spend hot summers in Southern Florida, or you can snow board in Utah for the winter.

Finally, they have much better social mobility in the US. In 12-18 months you can go from being broke living in a car. To being a millionaire.

America Cons.

Yes, health-care is higher.

UK Pros.

Better access to Healthcare.

Internet is cheaper and faster.

4 Weeks paid vacation time.

---------

America is an awesome place. It offers so many opportunities than other countries. It's something that you really can't get from a posting. You truly have to experience it. Then you'll get it.

[koyote]

> They have better cell phone plans, with free calls and texts.

The US has awful phone plans. You can get unlimited data in the UK for less than 25 a month. You can get 'enough' data for most people (2-3gb) for a tenner on pay as you go. Back when I was living in the US it was practically impossible to get away with paying less than 35-40$/month for anything with a reasonable amount of data and I haven't heard any news about this having changed recently.

Also do not underestimate vacation time. In my experience most companies in the UK give you around 5. I am on 6 weeks currently. It's great earning more money but if you have no time to actually use that money then that defeats the purpose a little bit in my opinion.

[bojan]

While I generally agree with you that America is an awesome place (if you can look past the income inequality), the weather argument does not stand. Let me repeat your sentence in European terms:

They have better access to weather. You can enjoy a nice climate in central Italy, spend hot summers in Southern Spain, or you can snow board in French Alps for the winter.

[no1youknowz]

True.

But it's not the same.

For the EU, each country has it's own marketplaces, own stores, own food cuisines, own ways of doing things. Why? Because they still have their own national identity.

In America it's one language, a Walmart in Utah is the same Walmart in Florida, same for Tacobell or Golden Corral. Why? Because it's just one country.

Until you start moving to the United States of Europe. Both experiences won't be the same.

[sosodaft]

London is as expensive as New York, where I'm moving. In fact, I will be paying roughly the same rent: $950 before bills in NYC, £850 including bills in London. In both cases I'm around 30 minutes from the city center.

My company is providing health insurance. I will be working the same hours. The biggest difference benefit-wise is that I get ten days less paid vacation (15 vs 25)--but I mostly used my vacation to visit New York.

A dev job in Indianapolis (or anywhere else between the coasts except Chicago) would pay what I make in London and the cost of living would be halved.

[user15672]

£850 is quite expensive for London (not outrageous, but above average). Most are more in line with £650-£750 for a reasonable double room in a 2 bed flat share. You can get cheaper if you share with more or go further out / to less desirable areas.

Source: I live and work in London and have done so for the last 5 1/2 years

[bla2]

$950 seems very cheap for NYC. Where are you going to live?

[sosodaft]

Off of Morgan Ave stop on the L

[guitarbill]

> But the pound is still stronger than the dollar, brexit hasn't changed that. Americans get paid more sure, but the cost of living is ridiculously higher, and you also have to basically take out another mortgage to afford your health service.

Most tech jobs have good health insurance. At the moment 1 GBP ~ 1.3 USD. I think a (good?) salary for somebody out of uni is ~30k GBP, and ~120k USD. For a software dev with a few years of experience it's maybe ~45k GPB vs ~200k USD (total comp). And depending on where you are in the US, you might be paying less tax.

A few more hours and some soul-crushing meetings doesn't seem so bad considering you can do it for a few years, come back and buy a house - in cash. Of course, you might find you enjoy it and you stay... ironically that's how I ended up living in the UK for 7 years.

[sosodaft]

You're a bit low on the salary front. I started at £44k (including bonus) with no experience; Senior dev roles here that I've seen seem to be around £65k.

Of course it still doesn't compare to a Silicon Valley or New York dev salary.

[8draco8]

It depends entirely on location. Maybe your salary figures are true for London but they are not elsewhere.

[UK-AL]

Even taking account of this, it's still a lot less than other hubs.

When UK Techies leave the UK for California. They don't come back. They have golden handcuffs money wise.

[guitarbill]

> Europe's best hope for keeping tech talent from going to the US may be Donald Trump cracking down on visas.

The opposite could happen. The spamable H-1B lottery where you're left in suspense for months to maybe get an H-1B sucks for you and the sponsoring company. But if e.g. the H-1B minimum salary is raised, you might actually see an increase in Europeans coming over. (I believe the DHS & TSA is doing far more to keep us out than Trump :P)

[th4dv]

If you're strongly motivated by money, London is probably the worst choice for taking a permanent job (unless you have enough experience to make a nice 6 figures salary and all that).

[UK-AL]

That's the biggest issue for the UK attracting tech talent. Compared to other countries, the salaries on offer just are not that enticing compared other big hubs.