Do you have a different level of expected privacy with Amazon's services than you do with Apple, Google, or Microsoft?
Alexa Calling will compete with FaceTime, Google Duo, and Skype (amongst others). Do you feel the same way about those other services or is your concern specifically related to the Echo platform?
My gut feeling is that FaceTime is encrypted client-to-client (or at least primarily p2p direct connections) but I don't have time right now to look into this in detail.
Google / Skype are both assumed to be MitM'd; Microsoft in fact purposely re-did things to centralize Skype. If I recall correctly, Google Voice was pretty clearly used for training data.
Why are you using gut feeling to make decisions when you clearly have an internet connection right now and can confirm or deny your hypothesis instantly?
FaceTime communications are end-to-end encrypted and Apple has no way to decrypt FaceTime data
when it is in transit between devices. Apple cannot intercept FaceTime communications. Apple has
FaceTime call invitation logs when a FaceTime call invitation is initiated. These logs do not indicate
that any communication between users actually took place. Apple has no information as to whether
the FaceTime call was successfully established or duration of a FaceTime call. FaceTime call invitation
logs are retained up to 30 days. FaceTime call invitation logs can be obtained with an order under 18
U.S.C. ยง2703(d) or court order meeting the equivalent legal standard or search warrant.
Then how come only Amazon gets shit on when they announce new products, while no one blinks an eye at new Google or Microsoft communication-related releases?
Are you kidding? You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy for product launches than that which is HackerNews. It doesn't much matter who is launching. The bigger they are, the more piss and vinegar you'll find in the comments. Apple and M$oft are certainly not immune to this.
If it makes you feel any better, I take care to shit on all of the spy-vertisers whenever possible, and think this kind of massive data collection should be illegal.
Assuming that it's true that they're always criticized for new products, it may be because they also sell a staggering breadth of other consumer products. We often see our Amazon search results on Web page ads for days after browsing on amazon.com. It's more obvious when you're being tracked and targeted by Amazon than by other consumer electronics manufacturers. (I wouldn't say I like it, but I'm OK with this contract so far.)
I have no idea why Google doesn't get more flak, but there is a higher level of privacy standard with Apple as they neither profit from user metadata (advertising) and are the most publicly visible torch-bearer for privacy among the big corps.
I don't trust anyone (even Apple) to have an always-on listening device in my house. Too many shades of 1984. If need be, I'll push a button on my phone/bt headset and query.
> Do you have a different level of expected privacy with Amazon's services than you do with Apple, Google, or Microsoft?
I was thinking about this today, and figured this is the epitome of a dystopian society. We've readily given up our freedoms and privacy in lieu of technology that is able to gather data on us and shared with entities we probably don't approve of, blinded by the "cool" things this technology can do.
Every time I see something like this I get nauseated because people are willing to hand over all their personal data for some shiny new technology that really doesn't do anything really amazing at all. I must be getting old, because it felt like not too long ago, technology was developed to help humans, not to gather data on them and subvert their privacy and treat them like dollar signs.
> Every time I see something like this I get nauseated because people are willing to hand over all their personal data for some shiny new technology that really doesn't do anything really amazing at all.
It isn't clear to me if you are directing that towards my comment, or if you meant it as a general criticism. My question was intended to understand more about the concerns that the previous comment raised and if they were only critical of Amazon's implementation or if they were more broadly concerned with privacy wrt all communication tools of this type. It was not to advocate for a "who cares, it's not important" position by any means.
> Do you have a different level of expected privacy with Amazon's services than you do with Apple, Google, or Microsoft?
No. The same Faustian bargain applies to these other services as well. I just think it's worth pointing out that this is not free. You're paying with your data.
I should also point out that the situation has evolved. Back when Skype was new, it was clear they were providing a service in exchange for ad revenue, but not so clear how much conversation data they were retaining if any. As the ad economy evolved perpetual [meta]data retention has become the norm - effectively increasing the cost of using these services.
Over here(UK) you can get a sim card from any operator for free, and call people on the same network for free - yet I don't expect my telephone conversations to be recorded and analysed by my mobile network. Why is it different here?
... the ability to send and receive messages and calls with other users (collectively, "Alexa Calling and Messaging") ...
1.1 General. Your messages, communications requests (e.g., "Alexa, call Mom"), and related interactions are "Alexa Interactions," ... Amazon processes and retains your Alexa Interactions and related information in the cloud in order to ... improve our services.
Section 1.3 of the Alexa Terms of Use: "...to provide and improve our services...".
1.3 Alexa Interactions. You control Alexa with your voice. Alexa streams audio to the cloud when you interact with Alexa. Alexa processes and retains your Alexa Interactions, such as your voice inputs, music playlists and your Alexa to-do and shopping lists, in the cloud to provide and improve our services. Learn more about these voice services including how to delete voice recordings associated with your account.
Section 1.1 of the Alexa Calling and Messaging Schedule (at the bottom of those terms) seems to imply that the actual content of your calls isn't what they call "Alexa Interactions", although if you call out to Alexa during the call ("Alexa, hang up"), that is an Alexa Interaction.
It's not very clear, though, and I feel like they could have made this clear very easily.
(I do expect Amazon to store the voiceprints of "Alexa, do foo" to improve their speech-to-text, as well as analyze the actual requests, yes, but I would hope that Amazon is not analyzing or storing the contents of calls.)
Yes, but those are Alexa interactions. I would not necessarily read that as including audio or voice messages to another human where Amazon is not expected to interpret or understand what you're saying, but rather to pass along the voice/video as a carrier.
Then again, you could read it that way. And Amazon might. This needs clarification.
Alexa Calling will compete with FaceTime, Google Duo, and Skype (amongst others). Do you feel the same way about those other services or is your concern specifically related to the Echo platform?