[rtpg]

Because most of it is wrong?

Most of the speech is around ideas that have been proven wrong over and over again. It's the same as when people come in and talk about a database that "solves" CAP.

Perhaps a better example is climate denial. Why do I have to listen to decades old debunked discussions over and over again?

EDIT: I also disagree with the premise. Loads of polite company will happily discuss immigration restriction and beyond. Though that's not your main point, I suppose.

It's not society's job to have all speech be acceptable. It's speakers' job to actually formulate ideas in a way that society accepts.

If you can't, the simplest explanation is that you're wrong, not that you're innovative.

[hyperdunc]

Practically speaking, it's a two-way street. Speakers also redefine the speech that society accepts.

But I disagree that it's not society's job to have all speech be acceptable. All speech should be allowed, and all counter-speech should be allowed. Only violence is not tolerated (and speech is not violence).

We also shouldn't treat all other cultures as equally valid sources of immigration because some cultures hold values that directly oppose our own.

Ideally, any individual that accepts certain fundamental western liberal values like freedom of speech should have the chance to immigrate. Practically, it's extremely difficult to screen individuals for this.

We have to be able to talk about the effects of mass immigration from places like the Middle East and North Africa. In Europe, many people who arrive from those areas create no-go zones, and their children don't assimilate but instead foster a resentment for the dominant culture. That is not ok and if we can't even talk about the one solution being to stop immigration from those areas then we are done as a culture.

[mistermann]

> In Europe, many people who arrive from those areas create no-go zones, and their children don't assimilate but instead foster a resentment for the dominant culture.

To be fair, I think a lot of the fault for non-integration lies with the host country, although if the migrants weren't invited, or weren't actually wanted by the population (fake democracy), then it's pretty tough to solve that. It's a group effort ideally.

[Spooky23]

Immigration issues aren't climate change.

Why is it a moral imperative to import, abuse, and discard Mexican and Guatemalan workers to pick your fruit and butcher your meat? Why could you drive around to Home Depot in the morning and see construction guys and landscapers hiring mostly immigrant, often illegal day laborers for cash?

My grandparents were able to migrate here legally in the 1940s without a pimp-like corporate sponsor holding them hostage or living illegally and being a second class citizen. Flooding the market with cheap labor that works cheap because they have no agency of their own hurts everyone.

If you want immigration that's fine, but don't advocate for the status quo -- take on immigrants as equals. If we did that, we might find that impoverished classes of US citizens would have an opportunity to enter the workforce.

[rtpg]

I am not arguing for the status quo. The hostage-taking of immigrant workers through things like corporate linking in H-1B is a tragedy and shouldn't happen.

I would rather solve the day laborer issue by going after the employers. Some immigrants take these jobs because they have no other choice, but employers are the ones actually exploiting people.

My impression was that the post was referring to the "classical anti-immigration" arguments that have been debunked like "immigrants are stealing our jobs" or "immigrants cost us money".

I'm very much for a humane system of immigration, that is to say being able to come into a country without having to be an indentured servant, and having the same labor protections as citizens.

I think you'd find a lot of pro-immigration people to be for this as well. A lot of corporations lobby for things like H-1B increases because it's much easier to get than "overhaul the immigration system to just let us hire who we want".

[mistermann]

> Most of the speech is around ideas that have been proven wrong over and over again

I doubt it, most likely you are thinking of some set of straw man arguments of the left having been disproven.

[rtpg]

There's definitely a lot of strawmen being kicked back and forth in image macros ("You will pay for the illegal immigrant to go to school but not for the sick vet" meme was reposted a lot during the VA scandals)

But we do live in a world where a congressman said that nobody dies from a lack of health insurance. There is still a lot of "solved" debate that gets rehashed over and over again (see also things like the autism-vaccine link, based off of the debunked paper).

[mistermann]

> we do live in a world where a congressman said that nobody dies from a lack of health insurance

There's straw men, and then there's the idiocy of "far right", or whatever you'd call that. Opposing Obamacare is one thing, comments like that are something else entirely.

[tomcam]

> It's not society's job to have all speech be acceptable

In the USA, it is. We call that the First Amendment