[HarryHirsch]

War in the middle east is ruining the West. I don't understand it and I don't buy the oil explanation

The conspiracy theory is that the war serves to dislodge the population and increase refugee flows to Europe to destabilize the region economically and politically. The war in the Middle East is in truth a war against the European Union, especially Germany. So the story goes.

[alva]

The truth is almost even stranger. Before the toppling of Libya, Gaddafi (whose relationship with the US is absolutely fascinating) made a very clear warning that this and the Arab Spring would lead to such an event. Many western governments have their fingerprints on the above events, but likely had not accounted for the side effects.

I would love to see the plans of the above events in my lifetime.

[curun1r]

The more plausible explanation, to me, is that it's part of the wealth transfer to the upper class. US Government contractors make billions off war-related contracts and US contractors have lucrative contracts in many Middle East countries that those countries are forced to accept in exchange for US military protection. On top of that, military action is a great way to divert the populace's attention while you're lowering taxes and otherwise screwing over the poor...just look at how well firing a bunch of missiles at an airfield worked for Trump.

If we allowed the Middle East to just work itself out without our meddling, there would be a lot of well-monied, powerful interests that would stand to lose a ton of money and they're willing to exert their influence to ensure that doesn't happen.

[photon-torpedo]

Seconded. These wars may not be in the interest of the US as a nation or of the US people, but those who profit from it have been doing so for a long time and gathered immense power, and are not willing to lose the source of their power. It's a kind of self-sustaining feedback loop.

[api]

I haven't heard that one.

I have heard that it is a proxy war against Russia or China, but I'm not sure that makes sense either. Russia in particular has tons of oil and doesn't need any from elsewhere.

The only thing that makes a little sense is that it's an end in itself: we must have war to support the war industry and it's associated jobs and social programs. It's not just corporations with an interest in this. For many poor Americans military service is the only way to advance, and military service signs you up for a much higher tier of social programs than the rest of the public. In truth America does have socialism. It's just enlistment to grave, not cradle to grave.

If there were a prolonged period without war, people would start questioning these expenditures.

[dragonwriter]

> Russia in particular has tons of oil and doesn't need any from elsewhere.

Russia seeks to deny it to potential geostrategic rivals. It's not a military advantage to have oil; it's an advantage to have it and deny it to your opponent.

Also, Russia may have enough for internal needs and modest exports, but that's perhaps insufficient for what is antiicoated in the event of a major conventional war.

[angry_octet]

More prosaically, Russia wants it's oil to be worth more. The crash in oil prices due to the US shale/fracking revolution, and Saudi pricing war to try to bankrupt the frackers, has smashed Russian oil profits, and caused Putin heartburn. Destabilizing the middle east raises oil prices, enmeshes the US in a no-win conflict, and imposes massive costs on EU powers, leading to xenophobia, rise of far right, and possibly the breakup of the EU. Win, win, win.

And POTUS likes Putin? What a doofus.

[codedokode]

Is not war in Syria a war for controlling the country? Current government (Asad) for a long time had good relationship with Russia and allows them to have military bases there. If West-backed opposition wins, they will allow locating there american bases instead of russian.

I guess that is the primary reason why West supports syrian opposition and why Russia takes part in the conflict.

[photon-torpedo]

The refugee flow is only a rather recent phenomenon. US military action in the Middle East has been going on for much longer. Recall the first Iraq war.

[sslayer]

Overall it's about SOTF. TPTB have a healthy respect for diversity. Conflict promotes innovation, ingenuity, and growth. The West has become domesticated, just like various breeds of animals and plants, the bloodlines become polluted. War, conflict, strife and struggle preserve the human race. But for how long??...

[sjg007]

Then it would be Russia driving it... that explains Syria but not Iraq/ Afghanistan