[scrollaway]

Did you? :)

Starcraft influenced the culture and politics of an entire nation and became a national sport. It pioneered "e-sports". It's a piece of history, and this disc is standalone a piece of history as well.

I think I know right from wrong, but I would still have absolutely no idea what to do if that disc landed on my doorstep.

Edit: I cannot believe this is such a controversial thing to say. Shame on the people who think this is an easy decision to make, put yourself in someone else's shoes for a while.

[jakebasile]

But it's still owned by Blizzard. It doesn't matter how important it was, they still own it. I am 100% sure the guy did the right thing in returning it, not only legally but morally as well. If Blizzard were to MIT license it that'd be amazing but they're the only ones with the power to do so, no matter who finds a copy in a box.

[Majestic121]

It's not owned by Blizzard anymore, it is a major piece of human culture and should be treated as such.

To poorly translate Victor Hugo : "The principle is twofold, let us not forget it. The book, as a book, belongs to the author, but as thought, it belongs - the word is not too vast - to the human race. All intelligences are entitled to it. If one of the two rights, the right of the writer and the right of the human mind, should be sacrificed, it would certainly be the right of the writer, for the public interest is our sole preoccupation, and All, I declare, must pass before us."

[scrollaway]

It's unclear whether it's a legal obligation given that the disc was found, it's even less clear whether it's a moral obligation.

If you didn't know anything about Blizzard, what would you speculate? Someone elsewhere in the thread for example is speculating Blizzard would destroy the copy -- if I thought that'd be a possibility, I would personally never send it their way and you could in no world convince me it's moral to send a piece of history to its demise.

[jakebasile]

It probably isn't strictly a legal obligation to return the physical disc barring stolen property stuff, but it would definitely be illegal to redistribute copyrighted code without a license to do so. Maybe you could claim some type of fair use but it wouldn't be transformative so I can't see how.

As for morality, I apply the golden rule: if someone found the code I wrote for a groundbreaking piece of software, and I didn't want to open source it, I'd really like for them to respect my wishes and return it.

Edit: I'm unable to reply further, but to clarify I was referring to the maxim of reciprocity or "do unto others". If the positions were reversed I'd want my property returned. If I find someone's wallet I'd return it if possible, as I'd want someone to return mine.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is my favorite Star Trek quote, but I don't think it applies in this situation as it was intended as a motivation for a personal decision to sacrifice, not to force someone else to sacrifice. That line of thought can get pretty dark pretty fast.

[scrollaway]

> I apply the golden rule: if someone found the code I wrote for a groundbreaking piece of software, and I didn't want to open source it, I'd really like for them to respect my wishes and return it.

Is that really the golden rule? What about "the good of the many"?

Returning it to Blizzard directly is good for Blizzard. Returning your code is good for you. Realistically, it has little monetary value (all the "value" will be spent on lawyers arguing what the value is), so maybe it's only good for you because it's simpler for you.

What if your sense of morality is not in line with everyone else's sense, and I'm returning code to someone who will not do "the moral thing" afterwards? Does that make me immoral?

Point is, this is not an easy decision at all. It's not an easy answer at all. I'd be petrified and I believe anyone else who spends time to consider the implications would be too.

[FooBarWidget]

> What about "the good of the many"?

That's like saying that robbing Bill Gates and distributing the money to millions of poor people is morally good because it's good for many people.

[jhasse]

Well taxes and social welfare are distributing the money of the rich to millions of poor people.

[casiotone]

I'm sure you'll be surprised to find that many people do think that would be morally good.

[Dylan16807]

That degrades property rights, so it's bad for the many.

Unless you systematically take most of the money away from billionaires, which could be totally justified if society wanted to enact such a tax.

In the case of 20 year old source code, there's not really an important norm to uphold.

[Dylan16807]

> Returning it to Blizzard directly is good for Blizzard. Returning your code is good for you.

To expand on this, it's good in general to return leaked code of active-development projects because that helps the social contract of turning work into something that can be sold. So if I found jakebasile's 2015 code in an alley, it would be in some sense good for everyone for me to return it.

But that doesn't apply to a 20 year old master for starcraft. There is no promotion of the useful arts in returning the CD in this specific case, and it's a hugely relevant cultural artifact.

[moftz]

If people want to promote the arts of game development, what does copying the code from a 20 year old game do to further today's useful arts? There are plenty of free game engines out there for someone to use and modify to build the next best game. Using buggy 20 year old code that can't run on modern computers doesn't really seem efficient.

[eridius]

So it's ok to take other people's property, as long as it's "culturally important"?

TBH this makes me think of the old practice of smuggling jade artifacts out of China. Hey, it's culturally important, so clearly that means it's ok for other people to take it, right?

[wtetzner]

> Returning it to Blizzard directly is good for Blizzard. I'm not even sure if that's true. It's not like Blizzard didn't already have the source code.

If some distributed the source code, what would happen? It's not like people could start releasing new StarCraft games to compete with Blizzard. And it seems unlikely that the source code is going to give someone some kind of an advantage it creating other competing games against Blizzard.

Obviously legally it's Blizzard's right to keep the code private, and there are times where it's advantageous to do so, but this doesn't really seem like one of those times.

[moftz]

Someone could just reskin assets, change dialog, etc and revamp Starcraft into any RTS game. The AI and game code is what is really important for Blizzard to retain. It isn't the idea that people will compile Starcraft (Blizzard has released the game for free), it's the possibility that someone may profit off of all of Blizzard's efforts in writing the backend code for the game. I think it seems very likely that there would be a sudden influx of Starcraft clones and other RTS games made from the engine flooding every app store. Blizzard doesn't want people making money off their IP, plain and simple.

[csallen]

> As for morality, I apply the golden rule: if someone found the code I wrote for a groundbreaking piece of software, and I didn't want to open source it, I'd really like for them to respect my wishes and return it.

The golden rule is, like most other unilateral rules, an oversimplification. Of course, that's what makes it attractive — it's an effortless substitute for having to think through the complex and messy realities of any given situation. But let's not kid ourselves that something is automatically good because we would want that thing in Blizzard's situation, case closed.

[tripzilch]

> That line of thought can get pretty dark pretty fast.

so does "do unto others", if you follow it.

additionally you just argued that the same moral rules and rights that apply to you, a living breathing individual with an inner drive to enact right over wrong, can be transferred to an entire corporation, a legal construct blind to ethics unless forced by legal rules. which is kinda inhumane.

and, the golden rule is only a good moral yardstick if your choices in what you'd want to have others do unto you are moral in the first place. not a very nice thing to question, sorry, but your hypothetical example does feature you writing groundbreaking software but wanting to keep it closed source. depending on the software and how groundbreaking it is, that's an open question, very much up to discussion.

[Dylan16807]

> As for morality, I apply the golden rule: if someone found the code I wrote for a groundbreaking piece of software, and I didn't want to open source it, I'd really like for them to respect my wishes and return it.

What if you said that after the copyright had expired? Would you still say it's immoral to release it against your wishes?

[ue_]

>but morally as well.

If you believe in private property rights, then sure. If not, then no. Some such as Max Stirner, 19th century philosopher, would disagree with your assertion that it is a moral issue.

[ant6n]

If somebody leaked it, it wouldn't change the ownership or the copyright itself. It would still be Blizzards code. It simply wouldn't be a secret anymore.

[Pica_soO]

You seem to hold the right to property higher then anything else. It might shock you but the society has the right to disown you, if your property is needed elsewhere - for example to build a interstate.

Now everyone's free to be the gremlin sitting on the sack, but if that sack literally is a masterpiece that shaped the whole of civilization, one day people will gently hoist you aside and replace the sack beneath you with a sack of similar monetary value, to put your original sack in museum.

Sorry if that's inconceivable in a black and white worldview. And no - its not communism, that is civilization. A right to destroy art does not exist.

[sneak]

Easy solution. Torrent the iso, return the lost property (the disc) to its owner.

No moral or ethical issue whatsoever. Nobody's rights violated. Everybody wins.

[jhasse]

The iso and the disc contain a finger print -> they know it must be you -> you lose

[hd4]

They would still have to prove you a) leaked it, b) didn't prevent someone taking the CD and creating a backup without your permission

[jhasse]

While that is true, I still count "getting into legal trouble" as a lose, as Blizzard already has well-payed lawyers. Even if you win in the end, you won't get the time and a compensation for the stress back.

[Tactic]

It's an absolutely simple decision for me to make. It is not mine, therefore I give it back.

It's like I taught my children... even if you don't know whose it is, you know it isn't yours.

And in this case it is even known.

The amount of moral flexibility in these comments astounds me, although it probably shouldn't.

[scrollaway]

Being inflexible with your legal and moral codes is a sure fire way to become a completely immoral person.

I would say it astounds me to find people who are as rigid as you are, but truthfully, it doesn't.