[rdslw]

I find this discussion of "benefits" fascinating.

In Europe, standard in IT companies (Central Europe, mind you), is:

* 25 fullt paid days (or more) of vacation every year (no need to call it a sabatical and limit it to once a three years), not including national holidays etc.

* one year of (or more) paid maternity leave (or more), while second parent gets few weeks (two at my country)

* free gym membership (so I can yoga/climb/whatever for free)

* private health coverage (in addition to the public one, if your country (most EU has)

* sickness time at least 80% paid (in most IT it's 100%)

* fresh fruits daily (I don't even mention drinks etc)

* education budget per employee (conferences etc)

Thats a STANDARD if you want to recruit software engineer here you must have.

[mahyarm]

Other than the vacation and parental leave time spans, which is mostly gov't law in many cases and not the company, that is pretty close to what it is in the USA.

[rdslw]

Quite the opposite.

1. dozens comments here from USA guys, treating basecamp benefits as superb.

2. it's paid by the company in the Europe, not the govt.

3. you seems to quitly skim over thing like unpaid sick leave in USA. It's paid in europe. This alone is a huge difference. or am I wrong and this is paid in US?

[mahyarm]

I was comparing to a typical SV tech company benefits package. I'm pretty sure your central european benefits package isn't standard for the rest of the country either.

Sick leave is usually just taking a day off and in practice nobody really cares. If your really sick then it gets covered by your disability insurance, which is pretty close to that %XX of your wage coverage.

What is your income level there?

[rdslw]

Definitely is not 'nobody really cares'.

Adding vacation time (which is standard not only in IT) of 5 weeks plus average sicktime (let's assume two weeks in a year) that's a big paid difference.

And as to the basecamp package being typical in SV: I concluded from many posts in this conversation differently.

PPP adjusted for cost of living, I suspect 20% lower on average than yours. Taking into account healthcare (priv and public), pensions, education (here is free and much better objectively: https://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-p... but also feel free to google OECD reports for EU/USA gap if you don't like hackerrank) and of course that year of paid maternity leave you skimmed over ;-) yeah it's much "different" here.

p.s. There was also a great discussion on HN about CA standard of housing and costs (rents, houses etc) two months ago. Conclusion: insane, unless you're DINK.

[dginsburg]

Yeah, benefits are generally poor in the US compared to Europe. Salaries tend to be higher and taxes tend to be lower in the US. It's American culture to value those more.

[rdslw]

Taxation in USA is quite high (worldwide) and you can easily find place in Europe with lower taxes. Tax heavens excluded.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates

[tedmiston]

When you say standard in Europe, are there certain countries you have in mind, like specifically some subset of Western Europe?

[mahyarm]

The health coverage is a lot cheaper for the company. In the USA it starts at $500/month for a single dude.

[rdslw]

It is, but not that much as you think. Adjusted for PPP it's only 30% cheaper here.

[apexalpha]

My health insurance is €90 a month for full coverage. Only missing Dental. I don't think the PPP difference is that much.

[rdslw]

I don't think that your insurance covers things like MRI. Does it? The one I wrote about does. Dental too, but missing dental, like missing optic is the thing I dont understand. I want to be healthy, except my eyes and teeth ;)

[mahyarm]

Vision 'insurance' doesn't offer much other than an eye exam and some glasses, so it has little value. You'd be using your medical insurance otherwise. They have dental coverage.