[quirkafleeg]

As I said in my post, the essential Japanese condition for surrender was that the Emperor remain in place.

After rejecting that, thus prolonging the war and using the atom bombs, the US ended up keeping the Emperor in place (ie accepting the previous Japanese condition) anyway.

[krapp]

I may be wrong, but I believe the Japanese wanted the Emperor to remain in place and retain his power - the US was merely willing to not kill him as long as he remained a figurehead and publicly renounced any claims to authority.

[quirkafleeg]

Whatever may have eventually been negotiated, and perhaps nothing would ever have been agreed, it disproves the myth (used to justify the atom bombs) that only being nuked forced them to consider surrender.

[krapp]

The recording of the Emperor's surrender had to be sneaked out to NHK studios past a military coup in progress, so certainly not everyone was convinced.

Personally, I tend to believe that the nukes, the potential cost of defending against an invasion of the mainland by the US, and Russia's invasion made surrender look like the obvious choice, but remember that the initial plan for Pearl Harbor assumed a negotiated surrender with the US which, Japan hoped, would let them keep certain territories necessary to maintain supply lines for their colonial wars, which was what they really cared about.

Fanatical resistance by the military, both due to their own racist ideals and out of the fear for self-preservation (the Japanese people, the Western world and the rest of Asia basically hated Japan's government by the end,) drew the war and the surrender out longer than it needed to be.

Although, I also believe the main reason the US dropped the atomic bombs is that we had them, and therefore needed to justify the expense of making them by using them. It's likely that, without Japan's surrender, the US would have used nuclear weapons and invaded Japan at the same time.

[quirkafleeg]

> Fanatical resistance by the military, both due to their own racist ideals and out of the fear for self-preservation drew the war and the surrender out longer than it needed to be.

That doesn't seem to be what you were originally arguing:

> It's odd how [Japan "fighting and fighting and fighting"] is portrayed as a negative aspect of Japan's militarism, when the Allies were fighting the same war with the same attitude.

[PerfectDlite]

Ю it disproves the myth (used to justify the atom bombs) that only being nuked forced them to consider surrender.

How is this a myth if nukes were mentioned in emperor's address as a reason to surrender?

[quirkafleeg]

I'm not sure what you're having trouble understanding here:

Because, as I've said, at least twice, they were already considering surrender even before the atomic bombs were dropped.

[PerfectDlite]

Yes. But if atomic bombs were mentioned as a reason for surrender, why you're calling it a myth?

[quirkafleeg]

Because being one of numerous factors is not the same as being the only factor, or even necessarily the deciding factor.