[fit2rule]

Can you really maintain such ignorance in the face of the political reality, that governments gain no powers from the ether but rather - directly - from the support of their civilian populations? Are you stupid, or just young and haven't gotten to that part in civics lessons yet?

[dang]

> Are you stupid, or just young and haven't gotten to that part in civics lessons yet

First, this is a bannable offense on Hacker News. Please don't do it again.

Second, please stop posting unsubstantive comments on inflammatory subjects. We don't want those here.

[mmjaa]

Whats unsubstantive about their point of view that the people are responsible for their governments?

This is a widely accepted truth, throughout history and international law - so while I do agree that the poster you're warning is a bit rude, I don't agree that their position is unsubstantive, one bit. I can understand their exasperation at the many claims that "governments can just get away with whatever they want to do because the people are powerless anyway."

There are many in the HN crowd who would like to see civilisation improve itself for the better - failing to take responsibility for ones government and its crimes against humanity is not going to produce that result. I would urge you to reduce your comment to pointing out the posters' rudeness - and remove your tacit censorship of their, very valid, point.

[dang]

On HN that point is unsubstantive because it's generic. We've learned from long experience that generic ideological discussions go nowhere interesting. Worse, users compensate for the inability to say anything new or interesting by fulminating, which leads to rants, incivility, and flamewars. That's how you get to arguments that population X deserved atrocity Y in one or two hops, and then outraged responses and outraged responses to outraged responses.

It's quite a reliable effect, which is why we're so clear about asking people not to do it.

[mmjaa]

Seems to me that its something that should be written up somewhere, since it is such valuable knowledge. I mean, I've read the posting guidelines, but your succinct description of the effect is far more useful.

However, it has to be stated that the entire basis of American society started with the Declaration of Independence, which frames the argument in entirely substantive terms leading to the conclusion that there is no government without its people - thus the people are responsible for their government whether they like it or not.

I feel that this point is valid in this conversation, because there is most definitely groupthink involved in not taking any responsibility, whatsoever, for ones governments' actions. Especially in the HN crowd, this is a vital issue and one that is no doubt bound to create diversion. But, doesn't that mean we need to continue the discussion, not censor it?

[Fraterkes]

Im 62 and have worked in sociology and politocology for 28 years. You're out of your depth.

[fit2rule]

Perhaps in your weathered age you've heard of and maybe even read the Declaration of Independence (in the case of the USA)?

"According to the Declaration of Independence, the government gets its power to govern from the people that it governs. As the Declaration says, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."