[odmkSeijin]

I don't agree with this, but I think I see what you are trying to say. I think typically a full design would include some interface portion with maybe DMA or PCIe or whatever that would be done in HDL, and maybe a processor or not. HLS works for the processing that is done inside the FPGA. If this is what you mean by DSP-like, then sure, but it does not have to be image processing, it could be anything done in fabric. It is possible to write a specific truth-table, and similar basic elements in C++, so why would you be forced to do any specific type of application? Where did you get %20 percent number? At least for Xilinx HLS, I don't think that has anything to do with anything (maybe for some other compiler??). If you take some generic C or C++ code and try to put it in an FPGA, the number will be more like 80%. The results will be horrible. On the other hand, if you write code in a way that naturally maps to the hardware you are using then the results can be every bit as good RTL. But this is not necessarily easy to do. I think that this has more to do with the quality of the current compilers, not some inherent limitation with the concept. I like HDL, but I would much much rather program in C++. It is a more sophisticated language. I think Intel/Altera is supposed to release some HLS tool, and I know there are others that I haven't tried. What I am saying is that it would be nice if enough effort was put into these tools to not have to worry about whether there are limitations. Even more so since I think the newer C++ standards are moving towards multi-threading/concurrency.

[oelang]

> Where did you get %20 percent number?

I get the 20% number from a real world case, guys who converted a huge existing vhdl design into HLS with the help of several Xilinx FAEs, the application was ideal for HLS.

> On the other hand, if you write code in a way that naturally maps to the hardware you are using then the results can be every bit as good RTL

You only believe this if you're deep in the Xilinx marketing bubble. HSL covers maybe ~20% of the usecases of FPGAs. Even the guys who teach HLS will not tell you it's a general solution.

> I think that this has more to do with the quality of the current compilers, not some inherent limitation with the concept.

This concept has been researched for more than 25 years, C to FPGA has failed except for the aforementioned case. Btw, I'm not saying that a general high-level synthesis solution isn't possible, I'm saying that it should never be based on C or C++.

[odmkSeijin]

Forget about Xilinx marketing. I am curious, what did you find causes a design fall outside the '20%' usecase situation? Are you talking about asynchronous clocks? feedback? IO configurations? or what? Why do you say HLS should not be based on C++? Is this related to concurrency or something else? I am not disagreeing with you necessarily. I would say that C++ has the good/bad quality that it is possible to express the same thing 20 different ways. Also, the behavioral simulation is vastly faster. Given that a design has to be done in a limited amount of time realistically, there is an advantage to being able to iterate rapidly and make many structural changes to optimize a large design for both area and clock frequency. Only trivial designs or very specific blocks would be hand placed. I want the compiler to do register re-balancing and other optimizations. The same way that almost no-one could beat the performance of a modern C compiler by typing in machine code. Definitely Vivado is not there yet, but it should be.

[oelang]

There are many examples: a pci-express bus or an application optimized ddr controller or a full tcp/ip stack or a caching/prefetch system or any advanced processor with feedback .... these kinds systems require precise control.

It can be done but all the advantages of HLS are gone. The code is filled with a ton of pragmas that make the code unreadable and a lot longer than the VHDL or SV equivalent.

Register-rebalancing (other companies call it retiming) is a very old technique. You can do it with SV & VHDL, just add delays & the synthesizer will know what to do. Vivado has caught up with the solutions from Altera but there are better (more expensive) synthesizers that easily beat both, the have supported this feature for at least 15 years.

[odmkSeijin]

Uh, yes, that is all true (except maybe the processor with feedback bit is debatable..). I agree with all this, and yet my arguments for why C++ HLS is a good thing remain the same.