[sleepingeights]

These people are insane.

> And if North Korea ever does change, if the Kim family were overthrown or were to voluntarily loosen its chokehold on information, a U.S. apology for the bombing could help dispel 65 years of hate.

Consider the response of white americans in the US after the Imperial Japanese bombed a military force in Pearl Harbor, with almost zero civilian casualties. It quickly became common sentiment in the US to respond by ridding the world of the "yellow scourge" after Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. The US response was to carpet bomb Japanese cities full of civilians, carpet bomb foreign cities held by Japan holding civilians and citizens of foreign nations, etc... then to top it off, they felt fully justified to drop two nuclear bombs on two cities full of civilians in Japan to teach East-Asia a lesson. They didn't drop it on the military which was massed in the southern parts of Japan, the US intentionally dropped TWO ATOMIC bombs on cities full of civilians!

How do they expect the North Koreans to just be appeased by their "apology"? It's crazy, crazy, crazy on the part of the US as well. It's actually insanity.

[PerfectDlite]

> The US response was to carpet bomb Japanese cities full of civilians, carpet bomb foreign cities held by Japan holding civilians and citizens of foreign nations, etc... then to top it off, they felt fully justified to drop two nuclear bombs on two cities full of civilians in Japan to teach East-Asia a lesson.

Looks like your perception of history is... a little bit skewed.

[averagewall]

But what if they hadn't? Japan was invading most of Asia with mass killings along the lines of ISIS and the Nazis. Are you saying ISIS should also be left alone and America not try to stop them?

Japanese civilians at the time weren't really innocent. The whole country was working for the war effort, mainly to kill other Asian people.

[AriaMinaei]

> Japanese civilians at the time weren't really innocent. The whole country was working for the war effort, mainly to kill other Asian people.

Wow, this is sounding terrifyingly similar to how suicide bombers justify their targeting of civilians. It's sad to see how easy it is for people who didn't grow up under the dogma of fundamentalist religion can still come to this way of thinking.

My friend, I implore you to think really hard about what you said, and take the time to recalibrate your moral compass. I can only hope that at some point in the future, you'll come to think that, war or not, enemy or not, killing civilians is bad. There is no shade of grey. It's only bad.

[fit2rule]

From whom do governments gain power?

(Hint: its not banks..)

[AriaMinaei]

That's over-simplification on a monumental scale.

Governments and societies aren't 1-1 mappings of each other. You shouldn't mistake one as the other. And even if you do, it still doesn't take much thinking to ask: What about children?

[fit2rule]

Sorry, but its not that complicated, either. The people get the governments they deserve - always.

[_nedR]

>Japanese civilians at the time weren't really innocent.

Wow, Its fascinating, the mental gymnastics people perform to rationalise the atrocities their side perpetrates while in the same breath deploring the atrocities committed by the other side.

[allendoerfer]

That's what you get, when you give children an identity resolving around your moral high ground, you being the greatest, you bringing freedom to the world, praising veterans who defend you against constant threats (in itself a contradiction), having a romantic relationship with your flag and the list goes on and on.

You better not take that away, because what defines you if you do?

[abritinthebay]

I think the people that say these things have a very poor understanding of what their own governments do in their name.

If they didn't they wouldn't paint with such a broad brush.

[psyc]

Are you saying ISIS should also be left alone and America not try to stop them

Absolutely yes, I'll say that. ISIS was created by the US bumbling about in Iraq, just like al Queda before it was created by the US intriguing in Afghanistan. But I don't expect the US will ever learn that bombs are the clumsiest of tools for shaping human history.

[cyphar]

> Are you saying ISIS should also be left alone and America not try to stop them?

As someone who isn't from America (and actually was born in a country which was subsequently bombed by America during peace time) I've never understood this idea that America is somehow justified in the belief that they are the moral arbiters of the world.

Who put you in charge? If the answer involves "we have a big military" it's interesting that a country obsessed with the concept of freedom is so willing fall back on "empire" when it's convenient. I guess Americans are still British at heart.

> Japanese civilians at the time weren't really innocent.

This sentence made my blood boil. How fucking dare you. America bombing civilian residences in order to handle other country's civil wars is not helping anyone. Fuck you.

> The whole country was working for the war effort, mainly to kill other Asian people.

Interesting rhetoric, given that America spends half a fucking TRILLION dollars a year on the military.

[dang]

On HN, please don't react by going into a rage when someone else says a terrible thing. It does no good and only pulls us further into a downward spiral.