[ercu]

Blocking wikipedia was ridiculous and doesn't fix the problem of biased moderators doing propaganda on wikipedia articles. Many people believe russia and iran have teams for editing articles [1], so maybe it's better all governments do the same instead of blocking it. People should know that this is not Erdogan's decision, but a court's.

I think it's done on purpose on the news but purging 4000 officials is not related to any dictatorship power of Erdogan. Those officials came to those positions by just being a member of an islamic organisation and by preventing competent people taking the job. What is happening in Turkey is, we see Karma is working.

[1][in Turkish] https://eksisozluk.com/wikipediadaki-fars-sovenizmini-engell...

[ralfn]

>so maybe it's better all governments do the same instead of blocking it.

This may be a difference between the east and west. The lightness in which "blocking" is mentioned. For the west you can replace that word with "censhorship" "fascism" for equal emotional impact.

Because freedom of speech and information is the one thing that binds us all in the West. Its why we can disagree non violently.

You may understand, though maybe not agree, with the strong anti Erdogan sentiment in the West. The bad guy has already been established and Erdogan is playing the part way too well.

And yes, we are fully aware of the hypocracy in terms of foreign policy, when it comes to this topic.

[diminish]

To be fair when AKP was west darling's in mid 2000s , YouTube, blogger and many service were blocked.

Your love for "Freedom of speech and information" didn't stop NYT, EU and the western echo chambers cheering Erdogan a leader for democracy.

So don't trick yourself by imitating the "we have values" game. Noone has.

[ralfn]

>So don't trick yourself by imitating the "we have values" game. Noone has.

I would argue that people do have values. Corporations and governments on the other end...

Keep in mind that its almost yesterday the west burried their notion of multi-culturalism. In the 90ties it was still considered racist to apply our moral values on people of another culture.

We were definately measuring with two different standards. And as a result, the censorship back then wasn't considered news.

Not that the hypocracy is gone. I dont think thats possible in a world where the west does any kind of bussiness with the Saudi's.

But you can see the change in perspective by for example looking at the general debate surrounding the working conditions in FoxConn.

In retrospect its all obvious. Globalism leads to an inevitable culture war. You cant have one world with multiple sets of moral rules. The working conditions in one place impact the availability of jobs and working conditions in other places.

Things have changed. Ten years ago, freedom of press in the West would be something that we would fight (and kill) for, but we were not applying it to exotic cultures. Nowadays, freedom of the press for any nation is an instant "are you part of modern civilisation" or are you an enemy choice.

I completely understand your frustration. The thing about public opinion is that its not like policy. Its inherently schizofrenic and contradictionary.

I am trying to explain the general sentiment towards Erdogan and why he has zero friends left in the West. It doesnt mean i think its actually this black and white.

The thing is: we have seen his speeches on TV. We didnt before. He called Holland nazi's for example. That alone has completely ruined any credits he had in Europe. No western politician can even smile at him right now and politically survive. He has no future and with him Turkey doesnt either and this has nothing to do with other political factions in Turkey.