[Curnee]

I play video games from a young Turkish woman. She goes to gigs, nightclubs, drinks and socialises. She hits on guys and they hit on her. She is indistinguishable from any western 20something. I was on a voice call with her the night of the supposed coup, and listened to her and her family angrily lemmenting the administration. It seemed even on the night of they knew something was fishy. She lives in Istanbul, and is educated, so maybe I don't get a full picture of the Turkish opinion. Maybe others elsewhere support the government and its actions, blindly. She'd love to move to the UK, and would fit in well with our culture. Yet a part of the Leave campaigns was about how Turkey would one day join the EU, and then we'd have Turkish people flooding here too!!! Shock horror. It's becoming a self fulfilling prophecy by the west at this point, to turn Turkey from what it is, to what they think it is.

[ardaozkal]

As a Turk, I'm actually happy that we were told that we can't join at all due to the referendum results. Not for me, I see myself similar to the friend you talked about, with a western culture, wanting to get off but failing, but for Europe. Allowing the 51% to roam around Europe would seriously damage the level of culture and freedom you have reached.

[politicalthrow]

Let me see if I can follow the logic.

There are people in turkey that are more western.

These people would leave turkey if possible, but they can't.

This is making turkey less western?

Wouldn't that have the opposite effect? The west is generally responsible for the brain drain in less successful countries. Throwing borders up will keep those people who share our views in those countries. It's a fair bet that those people will be the force for good change in their governments more likely within their country than outside it.

[forvelin]

There is a 49% in Turkey, and then there is 51%.

51 won and this happened.

[nebabyte]

We need to introduce some sort of minority action in democracy. The smaller pluralities should not be powerless against the majority...

The problem there I suppose would be neutral arbitration. sigh

[vidarh]

Most countries tend to have or quickly get rules to make constitutional changes hard to pass. E.g. requiring 2/3 majority or even multiple votes across multiple parliaments, or the like. Couple that with constitutions that limit the governments power, and you get some reasonable degree of protection of minorities.

The ability to enact drastic change with a minimal majority like in Turkey (or the UK...) is terribly dangerous.

[1001101]

That's a great thought - I believe this is how democracy in the US used to work with more magnanimity and cooperation. Maybe I'm romanticizing, but I will think on how I can do my part to bring it to fruition.

[mercer]

Or something like proportional representation, maybe?

[vidarh]

Proportional representation makes no difference for a straight yes/no vote.

[chinathrow]

51% won, but the vote rigging is staggering.