[stumblers]

I was introduced to these at USMC Officer Candidate School and agree wholeheartedly; these principles are effective and I have tried to live into them (as appropriate) as I've taken on manager/director roles in my career.

Amazon recently reached out to me to attend a giant recruiting event and included a link to these principles, and the "Are Right, A Lot" line item turned me off completely. There's something about stating that as a guiding principle that runs counter to my instincts and experience.

I'm as smart and as "right" as anyone on my team, but as a headline that rubbed me the wrong way. The finer print "...seek diverse perspectives and work to disconfirm their beliefs" sounds better, but confirming my beliefs along with every else's has worked pretty well so far.

For what it's worth, I was probably looking for an excuse to back off anyways. I have a great job where I am.

[osullivj]

Those USMC principles are fine principles; they exhort leaders to care for and develop the juniors under them. In my experience, in a political corporate environment, behaving that way will hold you back. Instead of "know your marines and look out for their welfare" you should "know your manager and look out for his/her welfare" ie "manage upwards". Instead of "keep your marines informed" you should "keep your manager informed, and only share information with your juniors selectively". Instead of "take responsibility for your actions" you should "ensure failures can be blamed on some scapegoat". If you're "managing out" a weak team member to avoid a payout you should "ensure the task is not accomplished" to build a paper trail justifying their later dismissal.

[aanm1988]

If you are a leader and you aren't looking out for the people under you then you are a shit leader. Applies to the Marines, applies to Amazon.

My manager there largely did what you are talking about and it did nothing good for anyone involved. It's pretty much the reason why one of the guys who worked for him as an engineer is now moving up to senior manager well my former manager is still stuck at the same place.

Acting the way you describe just leads to poor performance from your subordinates, up to them just leaving. That reflects poorly on you.

[osullivj]

I've seen the tactics I described work very well in investment banking, purely in terms of personal advancement. I naively adopted a USMC style approach as a newly minted manager and got beaten up and stabbed in the back massively by the more experienced and Machiavellian managers. So I left. It's important to realize the difference between a mature org and a growing business. In a mature org the senior staff are all fighting to get a bigger slice of a pie that doesn't grow. That's not the case in a growing business. Note that I'm using the term manager, not leader.

[stumblers]

Bummer, thankfully I don't work in a place like that...luck of the draw.

[AdamN]

You should check it out and see. The implicit precursor to "right, alot" is that you're trying things that might be wrong. Don't just try things for kicks, have some intention that they'll most likely turn out right (presuming there's a cost).

This doesn't apply to an AB test where you don't care what's right, you're just putting it out there and letting the users decide. What's 'right' there is the AB test itself and doing it.

[stumblers]

That sounds better for sure, but not the way it came across. I put the emphasis "Right" not "A Lot"...maybe next time.

[nunez]

I believe you can manage upwards and downwards. You don't and shouldn't have to shit on your team to make your superior look good, but if you can in a way that benefits the team, then do it!