[ianamartin]

I disagree with your takeaway, but I agree with the point that much of the talk about Theranos is really about gender.

That company just doesn't get covered without people talking about how Elizabeth Holmes is, in fact, a woman, and how she tries to channel a Steve Jobs persona, and how it's not working.

If Travis Kaladick or whatever his name is were running the company, the narrative would be very different.

I don't know how or if there is splashback against women trying to be taken seriously. But if there is, I wish you the best.

[Helmet]

How would the narrative be different? Travis Kalanick has been absolutely shit on by the press, and the HN crowd in general, and what he has done is arguably much less egregious than what Elizabeth Holmes has done.

[ianamartin]

The press is creaming their pants over the Uber scandals for the same reason they creamed their collective pants over Trump. It gets clicks. But the coverage for Uber is mostly positive in sentiment.

The stories about sexism at Uber are couched in the overall story about a great company doing great things, led by a great leader, and this is a setback that needs to be dealt with.

Look at any of the recent stories about Theranos. It's a bad company doing bad things, and Holmes is probably a criminal.

And if you don't think that irresponsibly deploying unlicensed driverless cars is as bad as outsourcing your tests because you aren't quite there yet with your technology, I beg you to reconsider.

One of those is worse than the other. To my knowledge so far, Holmes is not responsible for acts that genuinely put people's lives in danger. Uber is.

[Helmet]

Are you serious?

You think a glorified taxi company has put more peoples' lives in danger than a company that knowingly sold, deployed, and signed off on an health instrument and lab work that simply did not work?

An instrument and lab work that people relied on to accurately assess the contents of their blood?

An instrument and lab work that the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services said "did not comply with certificate requirements and performance standards"

and deemed a:

"immediate jeopardy to patient health and safety"

The reason that the stories about Theranos are about a "bad company doing bad things and Holmes is probably a criminal" is because they are exactly that!

Uber is a taxi company that most people enjoy using, has not fraudulently screwed people over, has at least on a surface level removed a level of racism (my roommate no longer has to ask me to flag a cab down for him btw), and can be linked to a reduction in drunk driving. Yes, their CEO is a douche, and they have a horrible company culture, but they are not systemically screwing people over like Theranos was.

[Mz]

One of the differences is that men (as a group) get vastly more positive press about actual accomplishments. One insidious form of sexism, racism etc is the degree to which we mostly talk about certain groups when there is something negative to say.

[Helmet]

You didn't answer my question. OP claimed that:

"If Travis Kaladick or whatever his name is were running the company, the narrative would be very different."

Now, given that Uber and Travis have been disparaged by both the press and HN on a regular basis, how would the narrative be different if he was running Theranos?

Do you actually believe that if Travis was in Elizabeth's shoes, we would speak more positively about the general situation?

I don't see how that's true, given that we speak very negatively about him already, and what he has done (behaved like a douche, promoted a bad culture) is, arguably, less egregious than what she has done (committed outright fraud, stolen investors money, possibly killed or at very least jeopardized peoples' health).

[icebraining]

One of the differences is that men (as a group) get vastly more positive press about actual accomplishments

Well, of course they do - there are many more men founding startups overall, so they'll get most of the press even if the publications were actually more likely to report women's accomplishments.

With less than 20% of startups having one woman founder (Crunchbase, 2014), what do you expect the press to do?

[Mz]

White males commit more murders than black males. Black males typically do more time on average.

It is a little like that. It isn't proportional.

Jessica Livingston is one of the two people who dreamed up YC. Paul Graham soon wrangled his previous confounders in on it. I hear vastly more about the three male cofounders than I do about the one female cofounder. Nor do I ever here her get credit proportional to PG. He was the front man. He was replaced by Sam Altman. Sam now gets most of the press.

Maybe this is Jessica being savvy and sidestepping the sexist bs in the world by trying to avoid press. Maybe she is way smarter than me. But I think YC is probably more "her baby" than Paul's or Sam's, yet I never see it framed that way.

If women are 2% of founders and get 1% of the credit, they are still being shorted.

[icebraining]

You see, sometimes one's perception of reality is just very different.

For example, you say that "I hear vastly more about the three male cofounders than I do about the one female cofounder."

I believe you - you hear what you hear. That said, I've been around HN for a while, yet I had to look up who the other male cofounders even were. Doing a search by their names, Jessica has easily three times more submissions about her than either Trevor or Robert.

And so when our perception is so different, many people will simply incorrectly assume dishonesty, because that's easier to picture. I find it unfortunate, but I don't think it can be avoided unless one's willing to be very detailed about the priors that led one to a certain conclusion rather than just state it and hope people will see it the same way.

[Mz]

Okay, run a little test: Compare Jessica to Paul Graham and Sam Altman instead of Trevor or Robert. Now, what kind of figures do you see?

She and Paul apparently cooked this idea up together. But it took forever for that detail to come out. For the longest time, my impression was that this was Paul's baby. I vaguely knew there was a female cofounder. It was much later that I heard that, really, this idea was her and Paul, not him and his prior cofounders.

[Mz]

Thank you.