[dirtae]

Where do you recommend shopping for outdoors gear that offers a significantly better value than REI? The gear at REI is not cheap, for sure, but it's also high quality. You can get cheaper gear at big box stores and discounters, but it will also fall apart more quickly, often negating the lower price.

When shopping for gear, I look around and check Backcountry.com, Moosejaw, and other retailers, and on average, REI's prices are not out of line with those other shops. And, of course, if you pay full price for something at REI, you get 10% back as a dividend at the end of the year, and REI's return policy is very generous.

[avar]

A lot of mountaineering gear costs a lot, but lasts for a really long time. It's like buying a car in some ways. So your go-to solution should be to buy used.

There's no shortage of people who bought an $800 backpack along with $2000 of other gear, who thought they'd be using them regularly, who later find out that they made a significant investment in a hobby they don't care much about.

Unless you're swimming in money buying gear from those people should be your first choice.

Knowing what to buy is also a huge factor. E.g. the market for backpacks is a bit like the market for racing bikes. You can easily end up spending 3-4x what you actually need because you're convinced that you need the latest & greatest. A bit like the weekend warriors who buy $4000 carbon fiber racing bikes to shave of a couple of kilos, which, unless you're competing, is a complete waste of money.

[noir_lord]

> A bit like the weekend warriors who buy $4000 carbon fiber racing bikes to shave of a couple of kilos, which, unless you're competing, is a complete waste of money.

Heh, As a cyclist I see that a lot, I ride a Carbon Felt Z6 2012 which cost me £768 new (about half what it cost originally here) when the 2013's came out.

I regulary ride with people who spent 5-8 times that on their bikes and go on about the weight savings (for reference my bike is often the same weight or at most 1/2lbs heavier), when I got the bike I was 245lbs, these days I'm 185lbs, the people with the 5 grand bikes are often a stone or two overweight...in terms of RoI skipping the cake would have been the way for them to go ;).

[cdubzzz]

Entirely off topic, but I love that this post mixes $, kilos, £, lbs, and stone.

[noir_lord]

Welcome to the UK where the units don't matter.

[up_and_up]

> So your go-to solution should be to buy used.

Unless you are talking about mountaineering gear like anything climbing related: ropes, cams etc.

How in the heck can you trust that used gear will work 100%? I would rather spend more $$ to reduce risk.

[avar]

I'd buy that used too.

You know there are climbing gyms where you're using both dynamic ropes & carabiners used by thousands of people before you? Those places aren't death traps.

Ditto mountaineering tours etc. for newbies that usually have every incentive not to report if they damage some of the equipment.

Carabiners, ropes & the like are tested when they're manufactured. Any damage likely to damage their structural integrity is usually going to be quite obvious. E.g. the carabiner won't close, or the rope will look like shit (although puncturing the core of a rope with crampons can be a subtle exception).

All other things being equal you're likely to be better off with brand new equipment, but you're also probably way better with used equipment where you spent that extra $500 you saved on some safety course & expert instruction, than skipping that and buying a brand new rope & carabiners.

Failing to properly secure a knot to a used carabiner is a way more likely cause of death than the carabiner itself failing.

[snowwrestler]

I agree with you on metal hardware--if it looks and works fine, it probably is.

It's hard to evaluate a climbing rope by visually inspecting it, though. The strength depends primarily on the core strands, which are hidden away behind the sheath. Chemical damage is not as visible as people assume it is.

It's especially hard for lead ropes, because every significant fall takes some the elasticity out of the core. A rope can look perfectly fine even if it is no longer capable of absorbing a lead fall. The danger here isn't so much that the rope will break, but that the lack of stretch will overload your pro, your body, or potentially even the anchor.

So I would be very hesitant to buy a lead rope used, unless you really know and trust the person. Top-roping should be fine because the fall factor is so low. You can top rope with static cord if you're attentive to the belay.

[blacksmith_tb]

Exactly - how many falls has that rope / nut / etc. taken? Obviously some things are not dangerous used (chalk bag, crash pad), but I agree completely, don't bargain-shop for things that your life depends on.

[Bartweiss]

> A lot of mountaineering gear costs a lot, but lasts for a really long time.

Precisely. REI has some stuff which is wildly overpriced - I wouldn't buy hiking shorts there. But if I'm buying climbing gear, no one will sell it cheap anywhere. REI dividends and a good warranty make the competitive, because I'm expecting to keep the gear for a decade or more.

[justinator]

Being cheap when buying climbing gear is like being cheap when getting a tattoo, except the latter won't kill you. Usually.

[weaksauce]

They changed the return policy on climbing gear to be much shorter. The gear coop has pretty good climbing deals and a good selection and a lifetime return policy(iirc) just don't abuse it.

Edit not lifetime anymore. Both places are one year.

[praneshp]

But most other places don't offer return on climbing gear. Even REI said they wouldn't take back my approach shoes if I didn't like them.

[Bartweiss]

That's a bit odd - I wonder if it's just a sanitation issue?

Certainly no load-bearing climbing gear is ever returnable. Harnesses, ropes, draws, and pro aren't (and shouldn't be) returnable or resalable ever. I assume helmets can't be either.

But non-safety gear like chalk bags can be returned, and I'm surprised they won't take back approach shoes since they aren't even used on a wall.

[weaksauce]

They used to take all gear back. They would be obligated to destroy it in the back if it was safety critical equipment though.

[Bartweiss]

I think it depends on what you're getting. REI is very pricy for common or short-lifespan gear like hiking shorts - you can do much better with Backcountry or Sierra Trading Post. But for quality, long-lived gear (rope, tents, etc) you're not going to find it cheap anywhere at all.

I usually end up comparing REI with Moosejaw + Activejunky, and it's a tossup which one will be cheaper.

(If you haven't tried Activejunky, do. It's usually another 5-15% off while shopping through other sites.)