[henrikschroder]

there's no such thing as morals or utility, really

Just to counterpoint the frenzy of moral nihilism and relativism I suspect will appear, I respectfully disagree, I'm a moral universalist, i.e. morals do exist, moral judgements can be true or false.

But I also realize that this is a question of philosophical faith, and arguing about that is usually pretty futile. :)

[derefr]

A few questions:

1. Given the laws of physics, could you derive your morality? 2. If we didn't exist, and in our place were an alien species that, say, ate their babies[1], would that make the universe contain less utility as a whole?

[1] The same story I linked to above: http://lesswrong.com/lw/y4/three_worlds_collide_08/. Who is in the right? Do we have the "moral imperative" to destroy the baby-eaters? Do the third species have a moral imperative to destroy us?

[henrikschroder]

1) No, the only way to get my morality is by asking me. As for whether or not a specific moral judgement is true or not, no, you can't derive that from the laws of physics either. What an incredibly boring universe that would be if that was the case.

2) You're asking me to sum up and compare the values of two complete civilizations? That's a pretty tall order. Also, in one of the alternatives I wouldn't exist, that's a lot less utility right there.

[derefr]

You just said you were a moral universalist—that goes against the concept of there being a "your" morality. Either morals are universal (in which case, you don't need a specific living being to ask in order to figure them out), or they're, at least in some part, subjective. Further, you seem to be explicitly arguing against yourself with the "in one of the alternatives I wouldn't exist" statement—what system of universal morals would privilege your existence over the existence of someone who is better in every way, except for not being you?

What I said above was that "morals or utility" are subjective to an individual—which agrees with your point. I said "and thus don't really exist" because the definitions for epistemic morality or universal utilitarianism require them to be universal—and they're not, so they don't exist as defined. (And a system that accepts subjective morality is usually just called "ethics", by the way.)