[btmorex]

For an individual you can make those proclamations, but individuals don't operate in a vacuum. There is such a thing as morals and utility in a society. There is value in participating in a society. Therefor, there is value is having individual morals and calculating the utility of actions at least on a societal level.

[derefr]

Right—that's, effectively, the difference between "cultural meta-ethics" and "moral relativism." What I'm saying is that, on an individual level, ethics is a problem that will be completely solved by neuropsychology: once we find out our particular utility function, we just have obey it optimally. Thus, Ethics as a field of endeavor should drop that kind of individual-level moral quandary, and focus on inter-societal quandaries, since that's what we'll really need to figure out—how to handle, and interact with, societies that have different utility functions than our own (including the ones we end up creating ourselves using genetic engineering, AI, and so forth.)

[billswift]

From the most recent post on LW http://lesswrong.com/lw/2aa/virtue_ethics_for_consequentiali...

Humans are not inherently expected utility maximizers, they're bounded agents with little capacity for reflection. Utility functions are great and all, but in the words of Zack M. Davis, "Humans don't have utility functions."

[jimbokun]

"once we find out our particular utility function, we just have obey it optimally."

Is this function computable?

[nzmsv]

But the morals of a society are not constant. They are a function of the morals of the individuals living in a society. What was perfectly acceptable in the 12th century is barbaric now. In a century or two we will seem barbarians to our descendants. (And they will still be saying that their generation lost all morals and humans will soon die out.)

[bruceboughton]

I wonder for what reasons our society will be judged barbaric by our descendants.

[Shorel]

Irak, the SUV vehicles, the bullying in schools, people parasiting the welfare system, the predatory banking practices, all those things seem barbaric to me.

[bruceboughton]

Iraq: seems short-sighted to me. We don't tend to judge past civilisations based on one war.

SUVs: maybe, but I would say our continued reliance on oil in general rather than SUVs in particular.

Bullying: could be.

Parasites on the welfare system: not convinced. The fact we have a welfare system will be judged favourably I expect.

Predatory banking practices: pass, not sure.

It's hard to imagine what things it will be--their values may be very different from ours. I'd say oil reliance, over population, the gulf between the rich and the impoverished, but these things are all too obvious. I suspect we'd be surprised by what we're judged badly for.