[erikpukinskis]

The JavaScript world is going to fragment soon. I'm an old school JavaScript developer... I'm not interested in Async, I'm not interested in promises, I'm not interested in classes. I think Javascript had some incredibly powerful features (functional, event-driven, small language) and ES6 removes all of those features.

I totally understand why the ES6 community likes it. It lets you write very Rubyish code and has lots of ergonomics for developers who don't want to have to think through the kinds of problems that functional programming forces you to think through. It's a push towards the Rails declarative aesthetic and away from functional/imperative. Declarative programming makes you feel like a wizard, until you have to debug something and then you feel like you don't know how to code at all. I've come to terms with the fact that the majority of JavaScript developers like this change.

But as libraries slowly drift out of compatibility with the older Node-style of programming, there comes a point where it's really a completely new language.

I think we're in for a fork of the community. Maybe there can be one runtime, but I think we're going to start seeing an alternative to NPM that allows developers to have an opinion about what JavaScript is.

[jhall1468]

What the hell are you talking about? None of those features are removed. The issue at hand is that we are developing more and more complex single page apps and we desire our primary language to support that trend.

Don't use classes. Don't use promises. Can't comment on what you said about async since it's literally nonsensical.

There is no fork coming, or if there is, it will only be used by a tiny portion of the community who thinks they are brilliant because they can "think through" functional programming problems but don't understand what role async calls play in modern development.

[erikpukinskis]

Can't not use promises because they're littered all over NPM now.

Not sure what's wrong with what I said about async? it's a new keyword in ES2017. It's a difficult to use control structure that doesn't do anything you couldn't do with callbacks. What part of "modern programming" do you need Async for?

I don't think I'm brilliant for being able to think through basic functional programming concepts. Actually the opposite... I think you need to be very smart to understand and debug promises, that's why they are bad. I like callbacks because they don't require me to be smart.

Maybe I'm smart for knowing I'm shooting my future self in the foot when I write code that requires smarts, but that's a little convoluted. The reason I care is because the ES6 community sold out beginners by adding all of this syntactic sugar. Javascript used to be a good beginner language.