[ajross]

At least some of that may be simple circumstance. When GDP growth is at 7%, it makes more sense for the oligarchs to invest in whatever is hot than it does to steal (everyone's getting rich, why take the risk and make the enemies?).

The US remains mostly uncorrupt at 2.2%.

Russia's GDP growth is at 1.3% per my quick google search, which is well underneath inflation. If you're sitting at the top with a mostly asset-dominated income, you have to be stealing if you want to grow. So only the thieves win.

[Retric]

US has high levels of corruption at the top, it's just better hidden and less accessible to most people. The secret is changing how the rules operate instead of selective enforcement.

[enraged_camel]

>>US has high levels of corruption at the top, it's just better hidden and less accessible to most people.

It is hidden... in broad daylight. For example, what is lobbying, if not legalized corruption?

[candiodari]

You know, there is justification for lobbying, and to some extent I would even say it is a strength of our society rather than a weakness.

Lobbying informs decision makers, in a non-neutral manner, about what they regulate from the perspective of people actually subject to the regulation produced. That is a very valuable thing if you compare it to the alternative. In societies where this is absent it leads to incredible inefficiency (just ask an old Dubai taxi driver about why a building was built, for instance. Prepare to be amazed).

Lobbying provides a form of feedback that would be very hard to acquire otherwise. Neither policymakers, nor the democratic public can realistically study the entire economy in sufficient detail to regulate it. But by definition, there are people who have made it their living to study, work and use parts of the economy, and they should be given access to policymakers before they get regulated.

And that's of course where it should stop. Oh well.

[Pica_soO]

Lobbying is a abomination, and the argumentation for it not sound at all.

If you want a additional voice for the economic class within a democracy, assign them a fixed percentage of power (25 % percent of the seats in parliament e.g.), and let them vote every day in secret within that percentage with the taxes paid to the whole state . Suddenly, lobbyism does not look that necessary at all, does it? One can design systems that channel corrosive elements into a productive whole.

[nojvek]

Like intuit lobbying for not making tax simple? Like Microsoft lobbying that US govt use their cloud? Or the big military suppliers lobbying to increase military budget? Or health insurance companies and big pharmacy lobbying hard so Americans would rather commit suicide than get proper healthcare?

The system has been effectively well gamed by the big cos and politicians.

[sokoloff]

Be careful. By excluding causes you disagree with from lobbying, you may well find yourself excluding causes that you do.

Should a group be allowed to lobby to keep/make abortion legal? To increase the number or amount of social support programs? To decrease the number or amount of same? Lobby for civil rights changes that have happened over the last 60 years (and those that still need implementation)? Lobby to increase (or abolish) the minimum wage? Lobby to exclude teaching young-Earth creationism (or evolution) in schools?

Lobbying is inherently done out of self-interest (or at least perceived self-interest). You point to examples where many people don't share that same interest, but if everyone did share the same interests, there would be no need to lobby for those interests, of course...

[ajross]

Corruption in this sense of the word is economic and quantifiable, we're not talking about policymaking and who bought off whichever party you hate. The US is near the bottom of the industrialized world in metrics like this.

[Retric]

This is independent of party and more obvious at the local level than national. Look into your local zoning some time.

When the rules says X must be farm land, but changing that so X can become tract housing means local developer can make a few million... Well that's a lot of power to hand some tiny group with minimal oversight. Supplying pencils etc to the local high schools can be a lot simpler if you know the right people...

[chaostheory]

Yes the key word is 'at the top'. For example it is way harder and much more rare to bribe a police officer or a teacher to get out of a ticket or get better grades in the West. The difference is the pervasiveness and acceptance of corruption. This matters for innovation. When everyone doesn't respect the rule of law, then stuff like investing in intellectual property gets completely thrown out the door. In China's defense, the West is going the other extreme which isn't good either