[krenden9]

I totally lie any time a recruiter asks for my current/past salary. How much I lie depends on what I think I should be getting for the role, and how likely it is that they can and will confirm the numbers I gave.

At my most recent past job, I was working for some guys at a small startup for next to nothing in salary (~$40k). I had a 10% stake in equity, but it was worth nothing, since the company was in debt. When I left I told the CEO and CTO "Can you say I made $160k salary?" Response - "Sure!" Next job was a $120k salary raise, + bonus, and I was able to work in RSUs.

At my current company, if I plan to leave, I'll fib by adding in my bonus % into base salary. I can't get away with much since I'm at a large corporation now. If they check and find a discrepancy I can blame it on a simple error.

With fibs, you can get a decent bump. But if you have complicit conspirators, then the sky's the limit.

Something I would not suggest is giving the number of a friend who will pose as HR/a past employer. This is pretty risky if you aren't attentive to detail.

[mi100hael]

There is 0 chance any past employer is going to divulge compensation details of a former employee to some random jackass recruiter that comes calling.

[krenden9]

That depends. Larger corporations tend to avoid asking things other than "Did John Doe work here as title Z from date X to date Y?" However, many smaller companies aren't legally savvy and will divulge too much information, if the other side asks questions they probably shouldn't be.

[_jal]

This.

I've mainly worked for small companies, and have had two situations where way more than was appropriate (or, you know, legal) divulged.

Neither caused me problems, but I made a point of getting back to @last_employers to point out that the next person they do that to might actually sue them.

[mdb333]

Not true. This is often included the questions asked by background check companies when they confirm previous employers. Its up to the previous employers whether they provide that information. I have seen both (ie company refuses, company provides) in my own background checks.

... so you probably want to think twice about outright lying. There are many ways to avoid lying but still getting your point across. In most cases, employers will be scared off more by someone blatantly lying (which would also be cause for termination in most cases) than someone delivering a compelling case for why they are worth more than what they were previously paid.

[komali2]

As a contract recruiter I can't imagine asking this during a reference check or employment verification. I'd have gotten fired so fast I'd still have the phone in my hand on the way out.

[j2bax]

I hope I never hire someone like you by accident. I have a feeling it wouldn't take long until this outlook would lead to other problems in the workplace that would have you on to your next con.

[krenden9]

Yes, because deceit runs through my soul and my heart is as black as damask cloth. The fact that I want to be paid what I feel I should and can be paid has no bearing on my performance and attitude at work. If you were to speak to any of my past employers, they would probably use the same sideways compliment my high school calc teacher wrote on a college recommendation: "brilliant, but like lightning in a bottle."

You'd be fortunate to hire someone like me.

[j2bax]

Honesty and integrity are pretty high on the list of qualities I like in people I associate and work with. The fact that you would conspire with your previous employer to artificially prop your value up and then tell a bold faced lie in an interview, does make it seem like you are not above doing whatever it takes to get what YOU want and feel you deserve.

[stale2002]

It is not propping up your value.

If you interview someone and they ask for X, and you agree to hire them for X, then you have made the decision that he is worth X.

That fact that he did not make X at his last job should have zero effect on his future job.

If you do not think he is worth X, then don't hire him. He is either worth X or not.

[thedufer]

I don't see anyone arguing that your past salary should have any effect on your future comp. On the other hand, the position that a candidate seems to be with X, but is actually worth Y << X if they've down themselves to be dishonest in the interview process seems pretty reasonable. In places with good labor protection, lying during the hiring process is a great way to waive all protections from being fired.

[krenden9]

> make it seem like you are not above doing whatever it takes to get what YOU want and feel you deserve.

Absolutely true. I'm also not an idiot and I apply this technique selectively. If I have to prevaricate to get something I want in a business setting, I have no problem with that. It's business, not a church confessional. However, when I'm at a company I align my desires with theirs and we BOTH get what we want.

Honesty and integrity in a corporate environment is a myth. To succeed you just have to project an illusion of those qualities. This is especially true higher up in the ranks.

Do you think your manager would tell you you're being laid off after having asked him? Hell no! He'll lie by omission or commission to save his skin. Is that honesty? Is there integrity in it? No! It's business. Get off your high horse.

My life goal is to retire early so no one fucking tells me what to do with my time. It's working out so far, so I see no need to change my means.

[kentrado]

This kind of naive thinking only hurts good people. Bad people already know not to listen to you.

[pixl97]

>I hope I never hire someone like you by accident.

It's likely employers like you that force employees to lie. It's amazing when employers are handed resumes that are anonymized, such as names, race, and sex information are removed they choose resumes with less bias. Yet you refuse to see that pricing information will cause additional bias on your part.

[krenden9]

> Yet you refuse to see that pricing information will cause additional bias on your part.

This is why I chose to have my former employers give a different salary figure. If I had told my prospective, new employer I had been making $40k/year, I doubt they would have taken me seriously, and even possibly ended recruitment. "He only makes $40k! He must be bad or stupid!" I don't consider myself bad or stupid, I'm just not afraid of taking calculated risks.

[j2bax]

Or you could simply say, "I prefer not to disclose that information". If a potential employer continues to push you to make the first offer, you can dodge the bullet and walk away with your integrity intact.

Personally, I never ask a candidate what they previously made. I do occasionally ask what their salary expectations are, but only when someone has applied that I perceive as far overqualified for the position they are applying for. e.g. Someone with a PHD and 20 years of experience applying for a Jr - Mid level position.

[sqeaky]

I find it so weird to see a lone person here defending integrity. Capitalism, the kind that enables startup culture, is built on trust. Starting an employment relationship with a lie is not good way to build trust.

I don't think employers should ask this, and they do employees should hold it against them. Employees shouldn't disclose it unless they want too. Anyone lying about this or anything else in the all too brief hiring process should be enough of a red flag to make the other party consider leaving.

[krenden9]

> Capitalism, the kind that enables startup culture, is built on trust.

I see you've never run a business, because that kind of textbook ideation of capitalism is not practiced in the real world. If you'd been paying attention to labor conditions under capitalism in the US, you'd know that trust is the exception. Child labor, sweatshops, discrimination, wage theft, monopolies, companies colluding to fix wages - these happen in most economic systems. As a worker you can level the playing field by engaging in behaviors in the same vein. Do it, or you'll lose.

Fiat monetary systems are built on trust. Economic philosophies are not.

[morgante]

Or you could have integrity and refuse to answer the question. I've never had a recruiter push back when I said "I can't disclose my current salary, but I'm looking for around $x."

[krenden9]

That's nonsense. Just like innocent people with integrity who plead the Fifth. The recruiter will think you're hiding something and you'll be bumped down the list. The analogy of the Fifth is quite appropriate, as the US court system has had bias against defendants who might/do invoke that right. It was only in the previous decade that the Supreme Court made a definitive ruling (in a liberal interpretation of the Fifth) about the subject.

The only integrity involved is the integrity I have toward myself and my goals. The goals of the company are ancillary.

[morgante]

I can't prove that it's never caused me to be bumped down the list, but I don't think it's every hurt. For anyone where I've gotten to that stage I almost always get the offer. Plus, I feel a lot more confident when I'm being honest and straightforward. Confidence is much more useful in a negotiation than any marginal gain you get by lying.

[solotronics]

Employers should not be asking previous salary anyways. Its the same tactics aggressive car salesmen use. People should be paid what they are worth and this is a tactic to maximize corporate profit at the COST of individual suffering.

[FireBeyond]

Yep. "How much are you looking to pay?" No, stop it.

"You can probably discern by the cars that I'm looking at or asking about a good ballpark of my range and desires."

[sneak]

It's not a con to negotiate a price and agree to it with mutual consent.

Anchoring a prospective customer of your labor to a high price is not a con. Nothing forces them to take the deal.

Please don't be a jerk.