[leereeves]

> The probability of you being struck by lightning this year is 1/960,000.

And most people take precautions to avoid being hit by lightning.

A one in a million risk of death is easily enough to inspire action to reduce the risk.

[sergiosgc]

The objective of terrorism is not to kill. The objective is to induce fear.

If you do not take a balanced approach at protection, you risk losing out the mind war. The result? The US becomes a closed country, no longer the land of the free much less the brave. The ultimate goal of terrorism is achieved.

My reference for correct behavior towards terrorism is the UK during the IRA campaign. Security was handled as a serious affair, but as silently as possible. Some fatalities were deemed innevitable, and reported as such by the media.

[osullivj]

Yes, the security response to the Provisional IRA campaign in the 70s, 80s & 90s was often low key. IMHO the British govt didn't want the British population to be so alarmed that they'd demand NI be expelled from the UK. I've got to differ on the aim of terrorism in this case. Obviously the aim of PIRA was and is a united Ireland: a 32 county Republic. The twin watchwords of the PIRA campaign were endurance & infliction. Endure everything that your opponent can throw at you, and inflict maximum damage on them. Which tacitly recognises that the campaign couldn't be won militarily. So the bombing campaign aimed to inflict economic damage. Just the same aim as the bombing campaign organised by Nelson Mandela as leader of the ANC's MK military wing in response to the Sharpeville massacre in early 60s South Africa. A secondary goal is polarise public opinion, so that moderates are forced to take sides. Bloody Sunday, internment and the hunger strikes all drained support from non violent nationalism in NI and bolstered support for Republicans. However, there's no comparison between the ANC and the PIRA on the one hand, and ISIS, Al Shabaab, Al Qaed & Boko Haram on the other. The ANC & PIRA were rational actors pursuing limited and legitimate goals. Jihadi extremist see shedding infidel blood as an end in itself, and they're quite explicit about wanting world domination.

[ch4s3]

You assume that SIS, Al Shabaab, Al Qaeda don't have goals beyond killing, and I think that's incorrect. AQAP seems to mostly want Western interests out of Yemen and Saudi. Al Shabab are loosely Stalinists and seem to be looking to control territory in Somalia and Ethiopia with Islamic jurisprudence , and I think they have some land issues not dissimilar to the EZLN(though I'm not sure I understand that correctly). ISIS/DAESH seem to want to draw Western powers into a costly proxy war with the aim of toppling regional powers. As evidenced by their early successes they seem to aim to use this chaos to build a state and call upon adherents to their brand of violent and regressive Sunni(esque) philosophy.

While these groups are less sympathetic than the IRA, early ANC, or ETA(to an extent), it's a mistake, I think, to view them as wholly different, or less human.

*Edit to clarify, these guys are definitely assholes and we need to have strategies to counter their goals.

[osullivj]

Well no; my last sentence was quite explicit about their aim being world domination. Al-Baghdadi, the ISIS leader, has been quite open about wanting a global caliphate. That why western Jihadis travel to the middle east to join them. That's what makes them qualitatively different than ANC, IRA, ETA etc. And that's why we should take them very seriously. If they were to get hold of weapons of mass destruction, they would use them.

[throwaway9475]

Does that include inappropriately frisking children because what if they're secretly lightning rods and they're going to kill us all? No. Because that's ridiculous. Just like it's ridiculous in airports.

[leereeves]

Terrorists have been known to place bombs on children.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_I...

[tptacek]

You see where this is going, right? This is exactly why terrorism "works": because the kinds of people who will frisk children "because terrorists have been known to use children" can be goaded into doing just about anything in that fashion. That's the real threat from terrorism: not to our overall physical security, which even at their worst no terrorist group has ever threatened existentially, but to our psychological security --- which they demonstrably have threatened to that degree.

[leereeves]

Whereas some people will object to any security measure on the grounds that "terrorists aren't a threat".

But if we actually followed their advice, terrorists would be an enormous threat because we'd take no steps to protect ourselves.

[tptacek]

So far we seem to be objecting to the wholesale copying of phones, aggressive physical inspection of women with back braces, and the frisking of children --- each of which you've defended as vital to defending against the terrorist threat.

I feel as if you might be making my point for me.

[leereeves]

Whatever exception you make - for children, for back braces, whatever - will be the exception terrorists will exploit.

If terrorists know you don't search children, they'll place bombs on children.

It's little use locking the front door while leaving the back door wide open.