[nlawalker]

If you own a PS4 or an X1 and the money to buy a PS4 Pro or Scorpio, it seems like the best move is to buy the upgrade of the platform you don't have. Then you've got access to both platforms' exclusives, and at least one new-spec machine for the games that aren't exclusive.

I think the most interesting thing is going to see how compatibility works out long-term for Scorpio. What will the cross-compat story be for the next console, and the one after that? Will they re-platform and lose compatibility again (and bring it back via emulation) or keep re-spec'ing the current platform? When will we see games that will play on Scorpio but not X1?

[snuxoll]

> If you own a PS4 or an X1 and the money to buy a PS4 Pro or Scorpio, it seems like the best move is to buy the upgrade of the platform you don't have. Then you've got access to both platforms' exclusives, and at least one new-spec machine for the games that aren't exclusive.

As someone who owns both consoles, after seeing the lack of enthusiasm at the PS4 Pro launch event I decided to hold off until Scorpio specs became known - I much prefer the Xbox "experience" but outside of exclusives it never gets much use since my "high-fidelity" gaming goes on my PC, and "console exclusives" usually are better on the PS4 (looking at Final Fantasy XV in particular here).

I'm glad I waited, there are games I want to play that are console exclusives but not tied to one platform or the other (Kingdom Hearts 3) - it looks like Microsoft hit this one out of the park. Seeing as the HDD in my OG Xbox One is going to fail soon (man is it noisy) the Scorpio looks like a good upgrade path.

> I think the most interesting thing is going to see how compatibility works out long-term for Scorpio. What will the cross-compat story be for the next console, and the one after that? Will they re-platform and lose compatibility again (and bring it back via emulation) or keep re-spec'ing the current platform? When will we see games that will play on Scorpio but not X1?

I believe the intent is that we are entering an era of smartphone-esque spec bumps to consoles, and getting rid of the full generational gap that has historically existed.

From here on out, expect new hardware every couple years that will be compatible with your existing library - after existing hardware is X generations old it will stop receiving software support and you'll have to upgrade. Likely, when the Scorpio+1/2 is out you'll see the original Xbox One and Xbox One S losing support for some newer titles (but they'll likely continue receiving support from indie developers and less intense games along with system software updates for a while after that).

[kbenson]

> From here on out, expect new hardware every couple years that will be compatible with your existing library

So, basically a computer, but limited, and a lower bar to entry.

I understand the use case for those that might not have a traditional computer or a very old one, but presumably everyone here would be better served by either shelling out an extra $100-$200 every couple years for a better video card in their laptop (if that's the only system them have), or dropping that on a discrete video card and sticking it in their current desktop?

I'm having trouble finding a case where I'm not better off buying a cheap Dell desktop and throwing a mid-range video card in there for approximately the same cost. It's a little bulkier, but I imagine Steam's Big Picture mode probably does a good job of the interface.

[snuxoll]

You're not exactly wrong, but you're not 100% right either.

Consoles have one thing that PC's don't, a streamlined experience tailor made for your TV. People do more than just play games on a console, they stream Netflix, interact with their friends through sharing videos and clips, listen to music on their home entertainment system that's already connected to the TV.

Valve has been trying REALLY hard to get to this point, but every time they add something new to the Steam platform it feels half baked in comparison to Microsoft's offering in particular.

Personally, I'm a PC gamer first - the lack of an integrated experience doesn't bother me when I just want to play games. My friends all use Discord for voice/text communication, I can use AMD's software to handle recording video and share it wherever I please, or use OBS to stream to twitch. But, I'm also a professional who uses computers all day and know how to put pieces together to fit my workflow - my friends are at least competent enough to do the same, but my wife or other groups of friends may not be.

Some people just want to buy a box, plug it in and have everything they want. That's the selling point, and unless Valve pulls some huge overhaul out of their butt's that is an advantage that consoles are going to retain.

[kbenson]

Yeah, I understand for the general public, and I wasn't trying to imply there's no place for the new consoles, just that I figure most the people reading HN could probably get away with putting that money towards their main computer platform more effectively. That does, of course, assume mostly single use, and that's a rather large caveat I didn't cover. I have three kids, and for a set-top box, ease of use is extremely important, since it's not just me using it.

[simonswords82]

I'm a typical HN user I suppose. Own/run a software company, we even code in Microsoft's tools! However, I do 99.9% of my work on a Mac laptop.

I've installed Steam on said laptop but it's just not the same as having a console.

I love my XB1, it just works. I buy a game, pop the disc in, download a metric shit tonne of updates for a couple of hours (a rant for another time) and I'm good to go.

I don't care about 60FPS or 4k resolution. I care about being able to use my minimal spare time to shoot teenagers on COD. I'll sacrifice an optimal gaming experience, for ease of access.

Just another thought.

[kbenson]

> I've installed Steam on said laptop but it's just not the same as having a console.

So, assuming the games you want to play are available on Steam for the Mac (a big if, likely), how bad is an Xbox USB controller, HDMI out to your TV, and Steam Big Picture mode? Is it sub-par, or have you never bothered because you have the xbone (or because it doesn't have what you want to play)? I have neither, so I honestly don't have any data on this, and I don't use Big Picture because I do my gaming on a desktop.

[to3m]

I'd have expected most people to have a laptop at home. Maybe I'm unusual, or maybe the people I know are unusual, but I don't know many who use a desktop PC at home any more.

Desktop work PCs are still common, but you're not going to spend your own money on them.

[kbenson]

I have a home workstation because I do a lot of work from home. Working from a laptop is a sub-par experience because of the form factor. Right now, I'm using a Dell XPS 15 laptop at home, but it's docked to a desktop keyboard and mouse, and a 40" 4K TV I use as a monitor. Prior to the laptop (which I almost never move, bit like that I can if needed take with me), I had a desktop at the same desk. So, right how I'msort of hybrid, but prior to that I had a desktop at home (and a separate, older laptop that I almost never used).

As for "most people", it's important to consider different types of situations, such as families in which there might be a shared computer, or a desktop in the room of one or more children because it's sometimes more economical.

[khedoros1]

I don't know many, either. Even mine has been sitting idle for a while, because it's in my (toddler) son's room, I don't have anywhere else to put it, and it's honestly begging for an upgrade at this point anyhow.

Which is too bad. It's got a nicer keyboard+mouse, sound system, screen, storage, network connection, and graphics than my laptop. There's a dedicated desk and chair. The only place the laptop wins out: Convenience.

[gozur88]

I have a desktop at home. I despise tiny laptop screens and tiny laptop keyboards. And touchpads. Desktops have advantages when it comes to performance and cooling, which is a big deal for a gaming system.

[shmed]

You'll never get the same performance for the same cost on PC. They showed forza horizon 3 running at 60 FPS/4k on the scorpio, in a stress test with wheather effect + the maximum amount of cars on screen, while only using 66% of the available GPU power. And that was on a version of forza that was not even yet optimized for the scorpio, all they did was spend 2 day updating the engine to run on scorpio. I'm not sure how much the scorpio will cost, but the NVidia 1070 struggle at running forza horizon 3 at 4k at over 50 fps. Getting anything more than a 1070 will likely cost you close to the price of the scorpio just for the GPU.

Specs to specs, PC would seem like a good deal for the price, but with all the optimization that goes into tweaking consoles to make them perform better on games, its rarely the case for a PC to outperform a console for the same price. For example, they announced a hardware implementation of DX12 into scorpio, which isn't available on PC yet. We don't know how much this will affect performance, but its the kind of things that plays in favor of consoles.

[kbenson]

> You'll never get the same performance for the same cost on PC.

In a direct from-nothing-to-full-system comparison, sure. But if you've got a desktop already, your costs might just be the Nvidia card, and maybe some more RAM if that's lacking. Newegg has Nvidia 1070 cards that advertise DX12 for $370. It looks like a 1080 will cost about the same as I imagine the Xbox refresh will cost for about 15%-20% more power. By the time this is actually released, a good 6+ months from now, I imagine those prices will probably be much better.

That's not the only thing that matters of course, but there are benefits to updating your general purpose machine, in that you might make use of that extra power in other ways (e.g. extra RAM making the system more performant in general, not just for games).

[snuxoll]

> But if you've got a desktop already

Killer right here for an increasing percentage of the population. Fewer households even HAVE a desktop PC these days, laptops, tablets and smartphones are the computing devices of choice for many these days.

Even if you HAVE a desktop, there's no reason to assume the power supply can handle a dedicated graphics card if it wasn't shipped with one. Many OEM's like to skimp on power delivery at the price points the majority of consumer desktop PC's are sold at, since a $400 machine has little profit margin in the first place.

[kbenson]

> Killer right here for an increasing percentage of the population.

Sure, but that's why I specified everyone here, as in the typical HN reader. There are plenty of things that don't make sense for the average person but make sense for particular groups. I wouldn't recommend a Raspberry Pi game/set top/server to the average person, but I might to someone here.

[gozur88]

I would have thought most households (in the US, at least) have a PC for taxes and youtube videos.