[35bge57dtjku]

> If any company were to quiz me on algorithmic basics, it had better explain to me beforehand why it is among the x% of all hiring companies that actually need to roll their own new solutions in the face of so many well-established libraries.

Please suggest a reasonable alternative then. I need to interview people and see if they are going to be capable of digging through complicated code, of coding things reasonably quickly, or writing scalable, robust code, of potentially digging into things enough to optimize their performance, etc. as reasonably well as I can in an hour. And I need enough concrete evidence that everyone else in the debrief believes me. I would love to change the way I do things, but I am held accountable for the interview, so I can't just show up to the debriefs saying crap like, "He says he can use a library for anything that comes up." And I need to evaluate some other soft skills type stuff, like caring about the customer, communicating well, delivering more if you see something extra that you think should be done, etc.

But the obvious answer to your question would be, "because if everything we do could be solved just by using a library, we'd have interns or offshore people do it for a fraction of the pay."

[cookiecaper]

As prirun says, you have a conversation, not a quiz.

Quizzes are a terrible way to assess skill; they're used in academics because they're, sadly, the only quick way to get some sort of consistent feeling over the memory and information retention in a group of dozens of students. No intelligent company should be copying this; companies have the luxury of dedicating significant time to exploring the potential of each candidate.

You say "Hey, here's a real problem that we'd need to solve. How would you go about it?" And let them talk. They'll be able to speak in informed terms about how to approach the problem even if their algorithms memory is rusty or if they're self-taught. If it sounds like they're on the right track, you win, if not, you move on. Repeat until end of interview, evaluate at the end.

I've used a basic code competency test for an interview pre-screen before. This is a take-home project that should take a competent person about 30 minutes, 2 hours if they go all out and add a bunch of bells and whistles.

People say this, that their take-homes are non-intrusive, but don't mean it. I mean it. The quiz is seeing if they can make a single API call to a prominent API and return the results according to a very simple format.

These pre-screens should be well below the competency requirement, which can only be assessed in the interview. It's essentially a fizzbuzz that they can't easily copy and paste by searching for "solutions to fizzbuzz".

Other than an extremely simple pre-screen like that, your decision should be based on their ability to reason, discuss, and solve problems on the fly, not how well they remember the particulars of compsci curriculum. That selects for the recency of their last class, which, ironically, is usually inversely correlated with their much more valuable real-world experience and what people think they're trying to test for.

This doesn't apply if you actually are doing deeply theoretical work on the cutting edge of compsci that may require frequent cooperation with academics. But that's a tiny minority of positions.

[prirun]

I love this; it's a good insight into what a hiring company wants to know about a potential employee. So how do you get there? Here's my suggestion:

There are 2 very distinct (in my mind) kinds of skills in question. For the "soft skills", a manager-type could and maybe should do that part of the interview. A trusted tech person should do the technical part. I'd go so far to say to that every technical person on the staff should be trained / groomed to help with interviews. So maybe you have 1 tech person do the tech interview, and a 2nd is learning how to interview.

For the interview itself, the process I'd use is to ask a lot of questions. For the soft interview, things like:

- "Tell me about a difficult customer you've had." Let them explain a while, and ask lots of probing questions: "Why didn't you do X instead?", etc.

- "Tell me about a difficult problem you had with a former employer." Same drill.

For the tech part, bring some code to the interview, ask the interviewee to bring some code to discuss. Another option would be to just throw them into a source code tree and say something like "Here's a tree of one of our projects. Talk to me about it." Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I could tell a lot about a tech person just from how they approached being thrown into a mess with no prior information. After all, that's a large part of being a good developer IMO. As they start to figure things out, look at code, etc., ask them questions about what they're seeing. Let them ask too. If you run into something interesting, like a specialized algorithm, ask them about it: "Why do you think it was done this way? What would some other options be?"

Then let them do these things for code they have previously written. For example, I wrote a Prime minicomputer emulator. I'd love an interview where they asked me about why I did this project, what problems I ran into, what were some alternative designs for tricky problems, what were the tricky problems, what did I learn from doing this, what tools did I use to do it, etc.

[joshuamorton]

>Another option would be to just throw them into a source code tree and say something like "Here's a tree of one of our projects. Talk to me about it."

"Its in perl, I don't know perl, and especially not your internally modified version of custom-magic perl that Steve wrote 7 years ago."

Not to mention that you are now either showing source code trees to random potential hires, or you have to audit/create/otherwise use some potential set of source code. Maybe you prescreen by asking them their favorite language, and you come in with an open source project, in their language of choice, but now you have to have one of your devs spend time familiarizing themselves with Redis or the Python interpreter or Hibernate Core or Angular or whatever, and what happens when they ask to do the interview in Haskell?

FWIW, I know some companies that do the interviews you're describing, but they're all relatively small (<100 employees), and they all do that kind of interview only after a technical phone screen with your conventional questions, because the time investment required by the company is so great.

[stuaxo]

A huge amount of coding is reading code.

These tests don't test digging through code.

I've worked on projects where people role their own solutions instead of being able to use stuff that's out there and it's not great either.

The real solution I guess is talking to people and teasing this info out of them, and perhaps showing them some older code you have since fixed and seeing what they find in it.

Edit - one reason I personally try and use a lot of libraries is so that large parts of a project are maintained upstream after I leave my contract; the more I write into the project, the more the next dev will have to maintain, anything I can push back into external libraries is a win.