[trome]

Why should a toolkit be illegal, and why should you not carry your tools with you? Picking a lock is usually the slowest way in, if you are trying to increase security, paying a premium for a better lock while retaining windows and unreinforced walls is a poor decision.

[falcolas]

> unreinforced walls

It is highly amusing how many keycard readers amount to "close this circuit between two wires hidden behind drywall". Or when they expose USB ports, or screw heads, or are protecting a glass door.

One of my favorites in a NY office design was the keycard passes through a door in a wall that was only a foot higher than the door, with plenty of open space above that (about 5-6'). Security theater isn't just the provenance of the TSA.

[LanceH]

Key card entry. Motion detector to open the doors on the other side. Open to the air above the doorway. I could throw anything over the door and it would unlock for me.

[gambiting]

In the UK posession of a lockpicking kit in public is very much illegal, unless you have a professional reason to carry one. Same with a knife - unless you are literally bringing one back from the store to your home, you can be arrested for having one.

[trome]

Unsurprising, the UK is a mass surveillance, dystopian state. Every packet sent over the internet is captured, and the UK has the highest security camera density in the world. Assad would kill to be able to so conveniently collect even half the data that the GCHQ collects on a daily basis.

Nevermind the nanny state about porn, both viewing and creation, or drugs. Makes Washington State or Colorado look like lawless states in comparison, and yet they still have a ton of nanny state rules that help no one.

[jnicholasp]

> same with a knife

Any knife? You can't carry a pocket knife in the UK? That's ridiculous. Knives were nearly the first tool proto-man ever made, and they're still the most useful general purpose tool you can have.

[germinalphrase]

There brands that sell blade specifically designed around the UK laws.

For instance, Spyderco makes the popular UK Penknife (2.93' blade and no lock) and the Spy-DK that's designed around the Danish knife laws.

[afandian]

No.

> Section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 prohibits having with you, in a public place of any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed, (including a folding pocket knife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 7.62cm/3 inches) (Archbold 24-125).

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapons_knives_...

[cabaalis]

A 3-inch blade length restriction is reasonable. For instance, it was illegal until 2014 in my state to carry a blade longer than 4 inches. (There is now no limit.) During the majority of my life that it was illegal to have a longer blade, most people I knew still carried pocket knives that were legal to carry.

[pmoriarty]

Why is a restriction of 3 inches reasonable again? Why not 4 inches or 2.5 inches or some other length?

[michaelt]

3 inches is no more reasonable than 70 mph as a speed limit. But if you accept that some limit should exist, it has to have some value, even if all the choices are equally arbitrary

[cabaalis]

I suppose I was commenting more on the reasonableness of the existence of a limit rather than the reasonableness of a given limit.

[tzs]

Here's a UK government link that might be a little clearer, as it is aimed at a more general level of reader: https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

[userbinator]

including a folding pocket knife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 7.62cm/3 inches

Does that still mean you can carry a short pocket knife (one that fits in your pocket is unlikely to be long, in any case)?

[jnicholasp]

The language is a little ambiguous. It seems it's meant to suggest that having a folding pocket knife with a blade less than 3 inches is allowed, but that is not actually said, only implied by contrast to the explicit statement that folding blades longer than 3" are prohibited. In a regulatory environment like the current UK, I don't like those kinds of rights being only ambiguously implied.

The guidelines go on to say that butter knives with no cutting edge and no points are considered prohibited blades under the law, which is ridiculous, and that folding pocket knives with blades less than 3" are not considered folding if they lock open (because they are not "immediately foldable"), and are therefore prohibited. Which is, again, ridiculous, and also undoubtedly​ leads to many unnecessary injuries as unlocking blades close on the fingers of their users.

Not impressed with this policy's risk assessment.

[huxleypig]

Not true, you can carry lockpicks whenever you want. Buying, owning and possessing them is not a problem. It only becomes a problem if the cops find them on you and they had reasonable grounds to think you were going to use them. This is the same for a crowbar, a screwdriver or a brick. The lockpicks themselves are fine.

[colinramsay]

I don't think this is true.

https://www.withoutakey.co.uk/blog/is-it-legal-to-use-lock-p...

[lucideer]

Your link seems to confirm that it is true?

It concludes with:

> if you're out and about with your trusty lock picks you're being a little risky, so best to keep them at home!

which seems to imply to me that it's probably illegal to carry them in public?

[JoeAltmaier]

There are laws against possession of burglar tools in many localities.

[meddlepal]

Just because there is a law doesn't mean it's a particularly well written or good law. That's what lawyers are for.

[colinramsay]

The poster merely said "possession"

[lucideer]

The poster said "possession ... in public"

[WillyOnWheels]

Carrying a knife in NYC for any reason can lead to serious charges.

[uzoodoo]

Source? AFAIK the ones that get people in trouble are "gravity knives" (folding knives that can be flicked open)

[WillyOnWheels]

The scary nearly foot long gravity knives that spawned the 50s NYC ban aren't sold anymore.

The word "gravity knife" has slowly become any knife you are carrying seen by the NYPD. I am being slightly flippant but not really.

The law is completely ridiculous, there are tons of cases of brown people receiving prison terms because they were carrying a knife for work.

There are actually a lot of stabbings in NYC daily, so politicians are not motivated to repeal or clean up the language in the gravity knife law.

In 2016 the ny state assembly and the ny state senate passed a bill to repeal the NYC gravity knife law, but Governor Cuomo vetoed it.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/how-a-50s-era-new-york-knif...

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/31/opinion/new-yorks-outdate...

[graedus]

This seems to be true in my experience. I was stopped in a subway station with a legal folding pocket knife (no assisted opening, blade length <4"). One of the undercover cops took the knife and repeatedly tried to get it to open due to gravity alone but couldn't. While he was doing this, the other one was questioning me: what do you use the knife for? (opening boxes at work) what do you do for work? ("computer guy").

They gave it back to me and told me it's best if I keep it inside my pocket instead of clipped to it.

Even though that ended OK for me, there are a bunch of ways it could have gone worse. If either cop was an asshole, or having a bad day, or if I had darker skin, or was wearing a hoodie, etc. I once read about someone getting locked up overnight despite his knife being legal because he had it clipped to his pocket - the visible clip was deemed by the police in that instance to constitute "brandishing a weapon". Not sure if that's true, but probably best not to take chances.

[peterwwillis]

In many US states, having a lockpick set without being a licensed locksmith is illegal, and you can be charged with a felony.

However, no police officer would ever identify a few bump keys on your keychain....

[refurb]

Don't be so sure! I read the SF Police blotter and see plenty of people arrested for suspicion of auto theft because they had "shaved keys" with them.

Depending on how saavy the local police are, you may get more attention then yoi want if the cops look close enough at your keys.

[peterwwillis]

You can't be arrested for suspicion alone, and bump keys aren't illegal according to California statute, and I didn't find anything about local statues either. So unless they have a warrant out for them, those people are going to walk free. (IANAL)

Also... cars don't use pins, so they wouldn't have been using a bump key for a car, but possibly a jiggler or a blank for impressioning.

[pmoriarty]

I'd really like to see the evidence for this. As I mentioned in another comment, from what I've read, possession of lockpicking tools are legal virtually everywhere in the USA, as long as one is not intending to commit a crime with them.

Please see:

http://toool.us/laws.html

[peterwwillis]

It says it right there on the site! Did you read it??

"Illinois infers from the possession of a key designed for lock bumping an intent to commit a felony." Mississippi says a concealed pick set is prima facie evidence of intent. Similar for Ohio, Nevada, and Virginia. Tennessee code might actually make them illegal outright.

[pps43]

Yes, but why?

[ransom1538]

Lock picking sets should be legal. It was me NOT KNOWING.

[Godel_unicode]

Given all the FUD around picks in the US, I like to refer people to the toool page, they've done a great job of distilling down what's legal and where.

http://toool.us/laws.html

[WillyOnWheels]

People get charged with carrying burglary tools in USA all of the time.

[pmoriarty]

Doesn't intent to commit a crime have to be shown?

From what I've read, possession of lockpicking tools are legal virtually everywhere in the USA, as long as one is not intending to commit a crime with them.

If I am mistaken on this point, I would love to be corrected. IANAL.

[Godel_unicode]

The short version is, usually. However, in some states possession of burglarious tools is evidence of intent. Helpful link, posted above:

http://toool.us/laws.html