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by paulsutter 3363 days ago
Here's a really funny one: English speakers don't even notice the difference between 'th' in theater and 'th' in the. The sound is completely different, but unless the difference is pointed out, we never even notice it.

R and L are way more similar.
2 comments
Razengan 3363 days ago
> English speakers don't even notice the difference between 'th' in theater and 'th' in the.

So I can say "the" with a "th" that sounds like "thanks", or "theater" that sounds like "the" and nobody will be able to tell the difference? Imagine me saying "that" as "thatch". No one would think I have a lisp? No one would say I'm not a native speaker? You know that's BS, unless you said can't perceive instead of can't hear.

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paulsutter 3363 days ago
I'm saying English speakers never realize the two sounds are different until someone points it out. Of course we can hear it, the sounds are very different.

It's easy to think that the way we think about sounds is perfectly natural, except that it isn't. The reality is that it's all relative. I'm sure the tones in Chinese come naturally to you but to the rest of us it's a challenge.

As for R and L, Japanese speakers can certainly hear the difference, but it's hard for them to remember or pronounce the difference. Believe me I've tried to explain it many times, and when you try you realize the difference is more subtle than we always assumed.

Korean has more vowel sounds than English. We can hear the difference, but feel convinced that it "doesn't matter" and that "those sounds are practically the same". And it's devilishly hard for us to consistently get the sound right. And that's what R and L are like.

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pebers 3363 days ago
We do in a small set of contexts (for example, teeth and teethe) where it can distinguish meaning. There are relatively few of those though.
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kazinator 3362 days ago
It distinguishes meaning in all contexts as far as I can tell.

In some words, either the voiced or unvoiced variant do not have an assigned meaning, but you must use the correct one.

In some cases, there is a near clash. For example, "thin" and "then" have a different vowel, which is clear when they are enunciated clearly. However, when it's an unstressed vowel in surrounding speech, particularly fast speech, the difference relies much more on the leading consonant, because unstressed vowels in English gravitate toward the central [Ə] sound.

There are also situations like "this'll" (contraction of this will) versus "thistle".

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