[tyweir]

I understand your viewpoint and opinion, as I've run into it before.

I'm going to disagree that gluten has had "no obvious ill effects" because I've seen the changes in my clients lives, experienced it my self (gluten-intolerant) and my mother (Celiac). And your argument that eating grains is not bad because they taste good is preposterous.

As for LSD, can you tell what appeals to you about the physique of a marathoner?

Changing peoples eating and exercise habits is like getting people to quit smoking, they need to have the impetus to start, outside advice/encouragement only goes so far.

"eat less junk, do more exercise." I guess we differ on what "junk" is.

[hugh3]

I've seen the changes in my clients lives

Ah, so you're someone who makes a living by selling diet plans? I'm afraid that if you're a professional x salesman that makes me somewhat less likely to trust your testimony on the advantages of x.

experienced it my self (gluten-intolerant) and my mother (Celiac)

Well obviously if you're gluten-intolerant then gluten is bad for you.

And your argument that eating grains is not bad because they taste good is preposterous

I'm not saying they're not bad because they taste good (cf cheesecake), I'm saying that it would take a lot of evidence to get me to stop eating 'em because they taste good. Basic price/benefit calculation: I'm not gonna give up bread and rice without a damn convincing reason.

As for LSD, can you tell what appeals to you about the physique of a marathoner?

Y'see now you're sounding like a salesman.

Changing peoples eating and exercise habits is like getting people to quit smoking, they need to have the impetus to start, outside advice/encouragement only goes so far.

True. I think crazy diet advice can really do a lot of harm, though, by making people think that getting fit is a lot harder than it actually is. Cutting out ice cream and cookies is easy, cutting out grains is very hard.

[tyweir]

I run a CrossFit gym in Toronto. I get no money/compensation for anything regarding nutrition. We get people to try paleo for a month, book-ended by body composition tests and benchmark workouts. If life gets better and they stick with it, great, if they want to quit, they quit.

"Y'see now you're sounding like a salesman."

You didn't answer the question, you just accused me of something that's not true.

I think the best thing to do is end this conversation. We disagree on all the points up for discussion, and I'm guessing that nothing I type will convince you, and I'm certain that nothing you type will convince me.

[billswift]

>I'm certain that nothing you type will convince me.

Well, at least you realize you are irrational.

[Evgeny]

cutting out grains is very hard.

Certainly not. You just stop eating them. I stopped about half a year ago and never looked back. Well, my health was reasonably good so I can't say it improved dramatically since. However, I had some digestion issues before, these have been eliminated. This alone is enough for me to justify dropping grains, as digestion issues may become annoying and embarrassing at times. :)

[chipsy]

The problem with "just stop" is that it interferes with a conventional lifestyle where you can tolerate other people's choices of food(which, the vast majority of the time, will contain grains or dairy).

I lean towards the paleo style myself, but I tolerate a little bit of compromise, and a little bit more when I'm with a friend. But I know intuitively how bad it is now - the effects I feel 15-30 minutes after consumption are mild but predictable.