[yanilkr]

Tech workers have something so much better than that. Freedom. If you do not like the values of the current company find a new one or start one.

Mob rule knows no fairness. When your ideas are vague, people fill them up with their version of fairness. Employees who are just starting out do not know anything about making sacrifices to build something bigger than themselves. If they collectively form a gang and override the will of the founders and investors who made more sacrifices, it drains the spirit of the individual to risk their time and savings to start something new.

People are free to organize their efforts but it takes founders and their sacrifices to make things happen. This collective power should embrace ideas of fairness and voluntarism instead of laws and force to get their way.

[cyphar]

You could make the same argument about most engineering disciplines. Yet other engineers have unions, because historically they've had unions and they've worked out well. The only reason that software engineering unions aren't common is because we didn't adopt them at the beginning.

Quick reminder that unions are the reason that many of the benefits you have in the workplace today are standardised across the workforce -- a union that has teeth can actually make a difference to your employer's actions.

[yanilkr]

That probably explains why "other engineering disciplines" do not have as many startups as software. If you do not like the current place and its values why do you hold others and its owners hostage to your ideals? Why not start a new one and attract better talent with your better values.

Tech companies are trying to do something better than what previous generations could do.

[Apocryphon]

And maybe tech unions- call them guilds or free associations or hacker collectives if you can't stomach the term- can do labor relations better than what previous unions could do, as well.

[rhino369]

Do most engineering disciplines have strong unions with large membership? It doesn't seem very common in EE.

[cyphar]

Mechanical and civil do at the very least. I generally find the electical engineers are more like programmers than other engineers.

[plainOldText]

> it takes founders and their sacrifices to make things happen

I believe that in many cases, the very first employees are equally responsible for the success of a company. I think this is especially true for tech companies founded by non-engineers.