[lz400]

Science also doesn't rely only on the scientific method. It relies mainly on maths and logic. Here both philosophy and science meet.

What I mean is that every time this debate happens it's the same a lot of "what do you mean by that?" And "define achievement". My thesis is that as a tool to gain knowledge about the natural world philosophy is not helpful anymore because the parts that are useful, logic and argumental rigor, are integrated in science already. Philosophy is still useful in ethics and morals but not useful in epistemology and metaphysics unless they follow modern science, which very few do.

[daptaq]

Well I don't disagree with your thesis in principle, I'm just adding that science is part of philosophy, as it too seeks to find out what is true and what not. And after all, logic and mathematics come from philosophy - there is no clear distinction between the two.

If you are talking about idealist philosophy, and are asking yourself how much their theories on the true substance of the world has contributed to the general wellbeing of the average human being, then I already said, that most people would agree that the products of science, as a materialist philosophy, are more helpful.

[lz400]

Yes you can argue science is part of philosophy, all is. I don't disagree. But there's been a divergence of not in principle, in practice. Philosophy departments and science departments barely talk in my opinion. 50 years ago it was different I think. The copnehaguen school of quantum physics, Bohr and all those guys, read and engaged in philosophy. Nowadays feels like there's a real disconnect. Not long ago discussing with a philosophy professor he told me that "those ignorant monkeys at MIT think they know everything and it's just pseudoscience". There's an feeling of entrenching within philosophy and of disinterest within Science. Another example is those silly Lawrence Krauss feuds with philosophers over his book about "nothing". Science is so strange nowadays, we need a philosophical treatment to make sense of multiverses, inflation, quantum interpretations, etc. Maybe it's more my biased impression than reality, I would be happy to be pointed to work along these lines.