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by goatlover 3362 days ago
Doesn't materialism fall into "any ontology" that you're ranting against? That's fine, skeptics about the nature of external reality have been around since the ancient Greeks.

But then to circle back around and privilege materialism as being somehow distinct from all the other ontologies humans have argued for? Are you skeptic or are you dogmatic materialist?

Pick your side. Just so you know, equating every other ontology as the equivalent of "God having a plan for my life" is piss poor philosophy, and just ignorant.
2 comments
ilugaslifg 3362 days ago
An ontology is an attempt to define any divisions beyond "all of that which is". Whatever I "am", philosophically, is whatever label describes somebody who does not presume to make any such distinctions.

Or, rather, always does that, like all of us do all the time, because that's what permits us to continue to live and think in the conditions and on the scale we find ourselves inhabiting, because that's the basis on which our minds work. But does not attempt to claim that any of the distinctions that happen to be useful to me have any fundamental basis in the raw nature of reality.

"Materialism" of this type is the default position in the same way atheism is the default position. The burden of proof is on the claim that there's something beyond material reality, and both dualism and theism are making this claim. It is the same claim. The only difference is the details of exactly what the supernatural thing is.

That is something there is not and cannot possibly be any evidence for, beyond "just take my word for it". In that way, dualism is indistinguishable from the existence of god or gods or magic or reincarnation or any other supernatural thing. To permit the possibility of one is to permit the possibility of the other. And there is no more evidence of one than the other, nor can there be. Again, there is no reason besides chauvinism or wishful thinking to believe in a theory of reality that makes you or something about you special.

I'm not going to extend the slightest benefit of the doubt to any theory of reality which says "I, and people/things/systems I recognize as like me, am intrinsically special and set permanently apart because something about me is fundamentally different from everything else", which dualism always comes down to. Any more than I'd be inclined to trust the objective truth of any theory of politics or economics or anthropology which says "I, and people/things/systems I recognize as like me, am intrinsically special and set permanently apart because something about me is fundamentally different from everything else".

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EDIT: I am definitely, full-heartedly, whatever Daniel Dennett is.

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ilugaslifg 3362 days ago
Also, redefining "nature" to include non-physical things does not get you around the problem. We run into a language limitation, when you attempt to define away this fundamentally impossible premise. That is what I mean when I say "what is supernatural in a reality where you're already permitting things that do not have a material basis".

What exactly is the distinction you're trying to make between "non-physical" and "supernatural"?

What basis is left to make that distinction on, once you've abandoned the material realm?

What distinguishes your "plane of consciousness" from "heaven" or "the astral projection spirit crystal healing field" or "the power of positive feelings"?

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