Ask HN: Negotiation advice with top tech companies?

[tootall]

Hi I was lucky enough to pass the standard software engineer interview with 3 of the top SV tech companies (think Google, Facebook, Apple, Netflix, Amazon). I have about 7 years of experience (some titles held: Software Engineer, Tech Lead, Engineering Manager), and the various recruiters handling my case said the feedback from the various interviewers was generally on the strong/very strong side.

Problem is: how much can I negotiate?

In my current company (medium stage startup) my total cash comp is about $200k and I have unvested equity in the form of stock options that are valued on paper at $~1M (based on the price the investors paid for the last round) and, while the equity is obviously illiquid, the company still has a very considerable growth potential and the business is going well. I already vested a decent amount (not included in my calculation above), so if I leave I would capture to some degree the upside of a liquidity event, should that ever come. I am interested in leaving my current position purely for new technical challenges (I am experiencing a very mild form of burnout due to the lack of new exciting projects), but I am not so desperate to accept a lowball offer. In other words, my BATNA is reasonably high.

In terms of offer, what I have gotten so far from one of those companies is:

- $180k base salary

- $200k RSU package over 4 years

- 10% target performance bonus

- $25k signing bonus

Considering my unvested compensation, this seemed low, so I told the recruiter that and, after a couple days, he came back with more RSUs (total package $300k now). How more can I play this game? It would be nice if the RSU package could get as close as possible to my current potential unvested value, but I don't know if that's even possible and if that would have other negative effects (e.g. unreasonably high expected performance level, so that I would be an easy target for termination after 11 months?).

Any advice would be great.

[bsvalley]

You're honestly at the edge. You might have nailed your interviews because 300k RSU and 180 base is extremely high for 7 years of exp. You can't compare a startup package with a public company package. I'm surprised they didn't even tell you the difference between options and RSU's. One is competely imaginary, the other one is real money. Treat your RSU like a signing bonus because it's (variable) cash. My guess is that the other offers you might get will be lower than this one ;)

[tootall]

Thanks for your feedback!

The problem is that, while my current startup is "imaginary" money compared to RSUs, the business is going very strong, we have multi million dollar yearly revenues so I'm not at a point where I consider the options as a huge gamble. It's very likely that they will retain a significant value.

Also notice that RSUs are 300k over 4 years, so effectively 75k a year: is 75k a year "extremely high"? I was under the impression that several employees at google and similar usually double their yearly compensation with RSUs, every year, which means RSU grant = 4*base salary (e.g. 350k a year total comp)

[bsvalley]

It's tough on the negotiation because your current package is virtual no matter how good the startup is doing. They're offering you real money, big difference. All you have to do with your $300K cash is to stay their for 4 years to get the full (variable) amount guaranteed. Also, something you need to know is that these big companies (I worked there myself) will easily give you another $50-$100K each year (on another 4 year plan) after your annual review. Depends if you perform well. From your offer I'm pretty confident you'll be one of these employees who will get well rewarded every year. So 300K is just the first year. It will pile up pretty quickly my friend. Stay their for 4 years and you'll see your W2 jumping through the roof ;)

[180k + 75k + 15-20K (bonus)] x 4 = $1 million cash.

Add up your extra RSU's each year + salary raise then you could potentially reach $1.5 in 4 years. It's money pretty much guaranteed minus the global stock market.

I'm surprised they've increased their original offer by %50, which is huge. Put it this way - at a public company there's no risk at all, they've absorbed all the risks a while back when they were a small startup. This is when they were offering a big piece of the pie to their early employees. Their stocks got split multiple times so it doubled or even quadrupled while the startup was still growing. They needed more shares for upcoming employees.

You can't come at the end as a software engineer and ask for $1 million in RSU's it just doesn't make sense. You are riding the wave at your current startup, which is pretty good for you! You can't apply the same principal everywhere else. They're stock is traded publicly so they have to justify each and every penny they spend.

The google thingy is a myth. Only a handful of people make a lot of money, either from acquisitions or some sort of AI guru. Maybe you are? I don't know.

[tootall]

Thank you for your thorough reply, I really appreciate it.

I can guarantee you I'm no guru at all, I just have a solid understanding of distributed systems on top of average coding skills.

Anyway, I talked to the recruiter and have still been on the defensive side, so he just told me to share with him what's the number I'll need in order to stop this and just say yes, and he'll work with the financial department to see what he can do. I'm going to probably try to get a very mild increase after I hear what the other companies have to say, but it's definitely good to know I can't overly milk the cow

[JSeymourATL]

Ask how you qualify for a potential raise your in 2nd year, understand their standards.

Also, don't limit this to just a monetary discussion (ask for additional PTO, Perks, etc...) On this subject Stuart Diamond is brilliant > https://youtu.be/liCOqUQzpQs

[tmaly]

Yeah your pretty much at a near max. Take the offer with the highest base salary. Options and any other form can have a downside.

[tootall]

Thanks for your opinion!