[Arizhel]

Funny, but silly. Why would people want to live in other places in the solar system? Earth, the Moon, and Mars are the only places that really make any sense at all. Even Mars is iffy because the gravity is rather low, it's far from Earth, the atmosphere is barely there, it's cold, and there's no radiation protection without going underground. The Moon is even worse, but at least it's close to Earth so it'd be really useful for mining or offworld/low-g manufacturing, and it's close enough for quick trips back to Earth.

Venus is far too hot to be useful for anything besides dirigible cities, and what are you going to do there except sightsee the yellow clouds? Maybe it could be terraformed to something livable, but that would take a long time. If that could be done though, it'd be a great place, since it's close to Earth's size and gravity.

Mercury is too close to the Sun and too hot. You could put a city on the dark side, but the city would have to move constantly to stay on the dark side.

The asteroid belt might be useful for mining, as would other places farther beyond, but anything that far out is going to be very cold, because it's so far from the Sun. Also, the Moons of Jupiter are bombarded with massive amounts of radiation from their planet. And all those places have horribly low gravity too, which probably won't work well with human biology, unless perhaps we genetically engineer ourselves to fix that.

Space exploration is great for science and maybe resource extraction, but I just don't see the point of colonization except for a couple of somewhat-convenient places, at least not in this star system. I really can't imagine an "empire" across this solar system. Now it would be really cool if we could explore the TRAPPIST system and maybe find livable worlds there.

[robbiep]

Why leave town? why jump on a ship and sail to unknown horizons? why get out of bed in the morning? Some people like the idea of adventure and the unknown. Practical realities be damned

[samstave]

TBH, I really really admire those ancestors of our past who jump a ship and sail into the unknown. That takes serious balls.

If you meditate on this you will see that the amount of gumption doing this, especially when info was not so easily begot and Safeway didnt exist... jesus - humanity was REALLY tenacious in the past. So, if given the opportunity to go on a craft to mars with even a single digit % survival probability - I would do it, if anything just to honor those who have done the same in the past...

[Arizhel]

That's nice, but no one can afford to go establish a colony in orbit around Saturn by themselves; that money has to come from somewhere, and it's a huge amount. That means you need to justify that expenditure of resources, and get other people to fund it. Personally, I'm not willing to work my ass off to spend a bunch of my money funding such a project. An automated probe, sure; a mission to investigate the potential for asteroid mining, sure; a Moon base, maybe. Some silly project with nothing going for it besides a few people who want me to fund their fantasy? And they want me to work hard here so they can have fun with no practical benefit? Hell no.

Even with your "jump on a ship" bit, European exploration of the "New World" was very expensive and required investment from wealthy patrons. It wasn't something a small group of adventurers could just do on their own.

[robbiep]

Well, good thing it looks like it's going to be largely private hands doing the work, and there'll be no shortage of volunteers. You and your lack of adventure can stay exactly where you are :)

[Arizhel]

It's not a matter of willing workers, it's a matter of funding. The problem is if you start demanding money in the form of taxes. I find it highly dubious that one rich person could fund such an endeavor all by himself; this kind of thing is a project of enormous magnitude, and just as with the Apollo missions, normally require the funding only possible with a very large nation-state, which gets that funding from taxes and has to answer to its voters.

If you can fund a Mars colonization mission all by yourself, then more power to you. But I just don't think it's possible, at least not any time soon. As a species, we haven't even managed to do any better than landing 3 men on our very nearby Moon for very short missions. We have zero experience in building and living in actual offworld habitats. It's never been done, not even in the one place where it's so close by that a rescue mission wouldn't be hard to do. The closest we've come is Biosphere II, a glass building in the Arizona desert, and that was a big failure.

[Arizhel]

>We have zero experience in building and living in actual offworld habitats.

It's too late to edit this, but I just want to qualify it: we have zero experience building and living in habitats on other celestial bodies. A small space station in low-Earth orbit within the Van Allen radiation-protection belts doesn't really count.

[robbiep]

sure. we don't have experience doing anything until we try. Ultimately it doesn't matter what you or I think about this: in the scheme of things (and not to channel musk, but it remains a fact) our species will blip out of existence unless we get off the planet.

Funding be damned. No one is asking you to work your arse off Interstellar style to fund a secret program to fund humanity and get us out of here. And no-one is asking the US government to pump a trillion into setting up colonies out there. But it will happen - and there will be commercial starts to it - asteroid mining, with initial small numbers of support personnel up there, then maybe a few habs. Maybe it will take generations; or maybe we'll be wiped out before then. But it is either part of the inevitable march of the story of our civilisation; or there won't be a civilisation to talk about

[nickjarboe]

Political freedom has often been the primary motivation for groups of people to emigrate. Hypothetical sea-steading aside, moving somewhere with no existing political system in place is not possible on Earth. Wealthy patrons might sponsor the pioneers. This was how much of early New England was settled by Europeans.

[Arizhel]

Yeah, but the problem here is that it seems unlikely that it'll be affordable to set up a self-sustaining colony any time in the foreseeable future without the resources of a large nation-state. And again, remember my previous post is talking about (and questioning the idea of) colonizing places other than Mars and the Moon (see the line about "except for a couple of somewhat-convenient places"), which are certainly the two easiest places in the solar system to colonize. I see I've been downvoted by some jerk, but of course no one can come up with a logical response to my question; how typical. So again, why would anyone bother colonizing one of these places (again, *other than Moon or Mars)? If you have that much money, and want to set up a self-sustaining colony and those two worlds aren't available for some reason, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to just build an independent space station? Then you could just stick it in Solar orbit not too far from Earth, or at a Lagrangian point, so you're not too far from or too near to the Sun, you're close enough to Earth for resupply in case that becomes necessary, you're close enough to Earth/Moon to take advantage of and participate in any space-based industrial activity there, and there's effectively unlimited space for space stations.

[nickjarboe]

I agree independent space stations make more sense than anywhere but maybe Mars. Using small, near-Earth asteroids for bulk resources at first seems likely. But for political autonomy, near Earth is unlikely. Earth's political systems will have a high incentive to have some control over massive objects moving very fast near the planet.

[Arizhel]

They don't have to be that near Earth. Just nearer than the outer planets, the asteroid belt, probably Mars, etc.

Besides, if it's strategically placed, it could easily threaten Earth with kinetic projectiles if Earth's political systems attempt to take control of it. Military units inside a deep gravity well have an enormous disadvantage to those outside the gravity well.