[AvenueIngres]

Doesn't the US has something like a 51% divorce rate? if you accept the premise that the nuclear family is a cornerstone of western civilization I can see why you would not be ecstatic at the idea of making marriage a trivial thing. Should we allow the individual to have every one of its desires in reach of fulfillment?

Though I concede that there is a point in allowing unhappy marriages to part away, after all, why live unhappy when someone else just for the sake of conforming. However, if appealing on the surface; I wonder if that could be in fact a local optimum that negatively affects society on the long term. I'm genuinely curious to know what do you think?

[JulianMorrison]

I feel that extended family, rather than nuclear family, is the cornerstone (of sensible living anywhere, not particularly of western living). And I think, divorce doesn't have to separate extended families, people have their own relationships which either work or don't regardless of what the couple feel about each other. But I don't think that making marriage consensual makes it trivial. On the contrary, I think that making marriage nonconsensual makes it a mockery. In what sense are people who despise each other married at all?

And the main threat to both extended families and marriage in the west is capitalism, of the particular, late, people-as-replaceable-cogs globalized variety. Who these days can afford to live where they grew up? Fix that, and you will see families reuniting.

As for the case in the original link, it's discriminatory that men have unequal power to end the marriage, but it's far more important, IMO, that marriages which end don't seem to carry the obligations they ought, of extended support and support for the children. This is the real discrimination, since it allows husbands to hold over wives the threat of destitution - or to carry it out.

[ucaetano]

"if you accept the premise that the nuclear family is a cornerstone of western civilization"

Individual rights are the cornerstone of modern western civilization, not the nuclear family.

[AvenueIngres]

>Individual rights are the cornerstone of modern western civilization, not the nuclear family.

Sure. Individual rights are the cornerstone of modernism. Western civilization predates the French Revolution.

[ucaetano]

Yep, that's why there's a "modern" in there.

[mcbits]

The nuclear family is a myth born in the mid-20th century and spread by television, so I can't accept that premise, although the attempt and failure of most families to emulate Leave it to Beaver and Donna Reed might be a source of some of the psychological problems plaguing modern western civilization.

[chongli]

Should we allow the individual to have every one of its desires in reach of fulfillment?

Our modern society is founded on the supreme principle of individual rights. If you want to live in a collectivist society with arranged marriages and a general distrust for individual freedoms, you can choose to do so. There are several available to choose from.

Otherwise you're going to have a hard time making the argument here. Too many people enjoy individual rights so much they are willing to leave their lives and livelihoods behind in order to come here. At the very minimum it's encumbant upon us to continue to preserve these rights for everyone.

[AvenueIngres]

I was not trying to argue whether that's the case or not. As you said so well, it is clearly the case. Rather, I am trying to wage whether that's a good thing or not. Is there a balance to strike?

>If you want to live in a collectivist society with arranged marriages and a general distrust for individual freedoms, you can choose to do so. There are several available to choose from.

I think you're putting words in my mouth. Words that you would like me to say perhaps.

[chongli]

The balance point will always be a matter for debate. I think it's pretty clear, however, that no fault divorce is absolutely the right thing to do. Keeping individuals out of toxic, unhappy, even abusive marriages is far more important than maintaining a low divorce statistic. I'd even go so far as to say preserving the individual happiness of all people is more important than any statistic.

I think you're putting words in my mouth

That comment was half in reference to the article, which is focused on India.