[imjustsaying]

>They ...do not have free healthcare [no citations necessary]

When I lived and worked in China, for a government entity, the insurance didn't cover anything I ever needed it for and I had to pay out of pocket 100% of the time for all costs. The private healthcare industry is exploding in China right now because the public healthcare system is inadequate.

There is no such thing as free healthcare. Even if you install single payer and ration health supplies to the extent more people die on waiting lists like in Canada, the government will still be paying for the little care that remains through your own taxes or debt obligations.

More enlightenment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peVLkW7uirI

[sosborn]

> people die on waiting lists like in Canada

People die on waiting lists in America too, so if you are going to make this argument, be specific. How many people, what are they on the waiting list for, and how is it worse than what we have in America?

[imjustsaying]

The answer is in just one word to the left of that quote: "_more_ people die on waiting lists like in Canada."

It's not that the free market provides a panacea utopia, it's that it's empirically better than everything else. The government system in Canada predictably and steadily broke down as efficiency left due to the lack of a free market.

>The study, an annual survey of physicians from across Canada, reports a median wait time of 20 weeks [in 2016] —the longest ever recorded—and more than double the 9.3 weeks Canadians waited in 1993 [when single-payer began], when the Fraser Institute began tracking wait times for medically necessary elective treatments.

http://canadafreepress.com/article/canadas-health-care-wait-...

[sosborn]

Ok, but you still haven't shown any numbers regarding deaths and how they compare to America.

[imjustsaying]

Well this will be my last response in playing the "but what about X" whackamole game where someone fires off a one liner and I gather data to create response after response when I've already demonstrated and evidenced the concepts and none of the axioms I've mentioned whose application would've answered that question have been addressed let alone refuted.

I've already spent significant amounts of effort in this thread gathering and summarizing data only to be repeatedly downvoted for bringing hard evidence that challenges the status quo opinion.

The study I've already cited more closely than international comparisons isolates the variable of single payer because it measures the same data points over time using the same methodology in the same country.

Comparing the US and Canada tends to be less reliable in comparison because the properties involved are more fluid, although it's still a useful comparison in some ways. Furthermore, the US healthcare system already has major single payer elements such as Medicare, which would complicate the isolation of the variable.

I just googled "difference in procedure wait times between the united states and canada" and literally every result on the front page supports the longer wait times in Canada that you asked to be shown.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-08-...

http://www.factcheck.org/2007/12/comparing-health-care-in-ca...

https://www.amsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/WaitingTimes...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_healthcare_s...

http://getbetterhealth.com/wait-times-for-medical-care-how-t...

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/sunday-review/long-waits-...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2585450/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3633404/

https://books.google.com/books?id=McL2UV9_QGUC&pg=PA176&lpg=...

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/reducing...

[sosborn]

I was specifically addressing your claims about deaths. How many more people die on waiting lists in Canada?