[stonogo]

Your invective borders on hysterical and does not encourage anyone to believe that engaging with you on this topic will be productive.

If you don't like downvotes, feel free to post this to a web forum that doesn't implement them.

[cstross]

You're American, aren't you?

It's perfectly normal human behaviour to assume that one's own country's motivations and activities are benevolent and effective. However, the picture looks very different to folks living outside the magic circle of the national border.

Those of us on HN who are not Americans find the giant sprawling US intelligence-industrial complex to be potentially terrifying — especially in view of the USA's demonstrated ability to extradite or kidnap (via extraordinary rendition) people it assumes to be hostile, and in extremis to target people for assassination by flying killer robot. It's the sort of capability that, in the hands of a Doctor Doom figure, or just a corrupt megalomaniac -- as opposed to the erudite, contemplative, great-hearted, and scholarly President of the United States of America who we all know and love -- would be the making of a dystopian novel or a superhero comic. (But of course, that would never happen.)

[stonogo]

I'm mortified by many things in my government, and I actively work to improve them. You may note I didn't disagree with him... or you may not, because you seem to be acting like I did.

The OP seemed genuinely upset that nobody wanted to engage him on the topic, and angry that he was getting downvoted, so I tried to help him understand why people might just downvote and move on.

Sorry if that caused you inconvenience.

[dan7678]

As one of the other comments makes clear, it's a matter of perspective. The ones that benefit always see it in a pretty light, regardless of whether the rest of the world absolutely hates it. If you insist for someone's words to be tailored to be lovey-dovey or the kind you'd expect from the pretty-light side, then don't read criticism because it'll always sound "invective" to you.

[stonogo]

Thanks for making an account to explain internet comments to me. This website is generally squarely centered on the silicon valley perspective. It's not irrational to expect people to react from that viewpoint. If you want to engage in productive dialogue, it helps to tailor your communications to the audience. It's possible to do so without compromising your values.

[dan7678]

Since you seek to genuinely help the follow and now apparently me, I would reckon you take internet comments quite seriously, so you're welcome. Naturally, this particular topic is touchy for both sides here, so it's just as irrational to expect him to dress it up without feeling what a potential respondent would feel if the original poster had an invective tone. It's hard, and I don't blame him for delivering it like that.

[brilliantcode]

The value I got from reading your comment was nil. If you have nothing to add to the discussion, why do you contradict yourself by replying?

[ChuckMcM]

Except they aren't facts, certainly not as presented.

Consider, you state: "blackmails the rest of the globe with nuclear deterrence"

Blackmail is the threat to expose something the victim doesn't want to see exposed, in exchange for some price or service. Nuclear deterrence, is just that, deterrence. Meaning to mitigate (or deter) an adversary from attacking.

"it ensures trading routes remain open" -- all nations with navies protect legitimate trade from pirates, there are ships from at least a half dozen navies protecting cargo from Somali pirates for example.

The US uses its intelligence agencies to undermine the constitution in the service of corporate interests [paraphrased, if you don't agree feel free to correct my interpreatation] -- The US certainly doesn't do this as a matter of policy, if you know of a different policy it would help your case to actually include it as a citation.

"it outspends the rest of the world on defense" -- In terms of real dollars or in terms of percentage of GDP? The last time I checked as a percentage of GDP, Israel outspent everyone else but I haven't looked in a while. There is also an economic size effect here, the US spends more (in real dollars) than any other country on social programs as well (for example). You probably want to stick to per capita numbers though if you're doing nation-state comparisons.

There are lots of things you can say about the US that are both facts, and make the country look bad, but the choices you made aren't facts so they have a hard time persuading the reader of your 'hegemony' thesis.

[brilliantcode]

So who bombed Hiroshima?

which oil rich part of the world do you think they were raining bombs from aircraft carriers?

Who spies on US allies and their corporations to benefit American ones?

Who spends more than the US on the military?

[stonogo]

You seemed disturbed that you were being downvoted. I tried to explain why people would choose to do that instead of engaging with you on the topic.

I'm not responsible for whether or not you choose to extract value.