[rl3]

I agree. I've only ever received one red light violation, and that was because I intentionally rolled through a red light at low speed on a three-way intersection making a right turn.

It was early Sunday morning in clear conditions, with clear visibility in all directions for about a quarter mile, not a car in sight. My trusty crapmobile had been stalling while resting at complete stops, and the destination was my mechanic's place, which was 100ft around the corner. Stopping at that light very well could have meant calling a tow truck to be towed 100ft, and I'd already made it about 25 miles with only minor issues at that point.

Well, I didn't see the red light camera that was newly-installed (let alone any notices for it), so I ended up with a $100 violation for rolling through a red at 5mph, issued via some company the local municipality contracted. You can't really argue context or circumstance with those people, since they're pretty much just call center employees ensuring that the video technically supports the violation. A stop-gap for the imperfect nature of their automation.

Ended up bitterly paying the $100. In retrospect, I wish a cop had stopped me instead, because there's about a 98% chance I would have gotten off.

The perverse aspect of the cameras is that in many states they don't count as moving violations, so that indicates it's not actually about safety but in fact revenue.

[logfromblammo]

You don't have to settle with the complainant, if you can convince the judge and/or jury.

Even if you don't actually want to go to court, you can usually still write an answer. Then you can still propose a settlement more favorable to you by mail, if the case isn't dropped outright. Why pay $100 if you could pay $20 plus postage stamps?

The automated enforcement would completely fall apart if the contractor had to spend money on skilled human labor for every citation. So every time you get a ticket from a robot, write an answer, and request source code for the robot's software as discovery. People pay because they don't want the hassle, but when you just send in a check for automated traffic enforcement tickets, you are paying the Dane-geld, and will never be rid of the Dane.

  "We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
    No matter how trifling the cost;
  For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
    And the nation that plays it is lost!"  --R. Kipling, "Dane-geld"

https://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/dane_geld.htm...

(Not a lawyer. Not legal advice.)

[jakobegger]

If your car can't stop safely at an intersection, you should have had it towed in the first place, instead of endangering everyone else on the road.

The way you tell this story, those $100 were absolutely justified.

[cfraenkel]

He didn't say the car couldn't stop - there was no mention of any problems with the brakes. He chose to roll through the intersection after evaluating the safety of doing so. Please don't put words in others' mouths.

[jakobegger]

I thought this was obvious, but stopping safely at an intersection includes being able to leave the intersection when the light turns green.

When your car is stalled in the middle of the road, it can pose a danger to others.

You shouldn't be driving a broken car, and saying "well but the brakes work" doesn't make it okay.

[rl3]

I already addressed those specific concerns. Wide, empty roads. Not a safety issue. Did you know that plenty of mechanics will take vehicles in far worse shape on the road, in traffic, because it's the only way to test them?

As much as I enjoyed being put on trial here, I would have preferred to actually talk about red light cameras instead. Maybe next time stick to the topic, rather than derailing a large part of a thread with self-righteous moral pedantry.

[LeifCarrotson]

The car could safely stop at the intersection, but it would have stalled if he did so.

He made a human decision, a judgement call, to roll through the stoplight: one that would have been supported by a police officer, who could also apply common sense to the situation. The traffic camera and bureaucracy, unable to apply any decision-making or judgement or common sense, is in the wrong here.

[rl3]

Stopping safely wasn't a problem. The issue was getting going again, because it'd stall out at a complete stop. Considering I'd chosen a time when the roads were virtually empty, and a route that consisted entirely of four lane roads, I wasn't endangering anyone.

I'd also already blown through my tow insurance by having it towed several times to local shops who couldn't diagnose or correct the issue, so I'd have had to foot the bill for a long distance tow on something that three shops found no issue with, which was rather difficult being completely broke at the time.

[matt4077]

Would it be allowed in the US to drive a vehicle on public roads that is not able to start on it's own? Because your explanation sounds awfully like "Very sorry, office – I'm kinda in a hurry because I want to get rid of this body in the back before it starts smelling".

[rl3]

>Would it be allowed in the US to drive a vehicle on public roads that is not able to start on it's own?

The stalling was infrequent, not constant. I'm sure a lot of things are technically illegal, but it would depend on the state.

>Because your explanation sounds awfully like "Very sorry, office – I'm kinda in a hurry because I want to get rid of this body in the back before it starts smelling".

What? I'm starting to regret even sharing this story. :)

If it makes you feel any better, it was a small town, so the mechanic and local cops were friends. Seeing as I would've literally been pulled over outside of the mechanic's garage, and that common sense was in my favor anyways, I'm sticking with the 98% probability of getting off.

[vlan0]

Huh, I didn't interpret stalling while idling at a stop as a danger to others on the road. Especially when the car can be started again. The same principle applies if I accidently stall my manual vehicle.

[rl3]

To play devil's advocate it can be an issue if you're stalled out long enough that cars start moving around you on narrow roadways with oncoming traffic, but in my case that was completely mitigated by choosing the route and time carefully. Wide, empty roads are ideal.