[cheriot]

"The prime objective for a business is to make money."

A business is a way for people to organize and collaborate and it does not absolve those people of their moral and ethical obligations. Individuals are expected to prioritize family, community, country, religion, etc. We need to stop giving people a free pass just because they hide behind articles of incorporation.

[John23832]

What are you going to do, put a business in jail?

Hold the people who have made you promises and then failed to follow through responsible. Aka, your politicians. They are your backstop. What makes Goldman, GSK, Haliburton, or any of the other shady, scummy businesses out there responsible to you? They are responsible to the law on the books.

Our politicians are supposed to prevent business from screwing our society. Stop giving them an out. They failed, time and time again.

[mikeash]

I think it could work really well to put businesses "in jail." You can't physically put them in prison, but you can achieve the same ultimate effect by forcing them to cease operations for a period of time. If a crime would put a person in prison for five years, then maybe it should also force a business to cease operations for five years.

[John23832]

Well that may be a good possible solution, but currently we don't/can't do that.

[mikeash]

Didn't "what are you going to do" indicate a potential hypothetical?

[John23832]

It was, because you can't put a business in actual jail... You gave an alternative punishment that you could actually levy on a business and I agree that that could work.

[mikeash]

Then I don't get your response. "What would you do, hypothetically?" "Hypothetically, you could do X." "We don't do X!"

I mean... yeah... that's why it's an idea and not a description of how things work.

[cheriot]

Everyone in a society has an obligation to that society. America seems to be forgetting this. A business doesn't change the obligations of the individuals so put the individuals in prison if needed. Did someone sign off on dumping toxic waste or robbing people's savings? Would have been illegal if a person did it without getting a paycheck? Why does a paycheck change anything? Let them answer for their actions.

Stop expecting politicians to be perfect.

[John23832]

> Everyone in a society has an obligation to that society.

You're right, every person does.

> A business doesn't change the obligations of the individuals so put the individuals in prison if needed. Did someone sign off on dumping toxic waste or robbing people's savings? Would have been illegal if a person did it without getting a paycheck? Why does a paycheck change anything? Let them answer for their actions.

What are you trying to say here? That we should hold people/businesses legally responsible? No one is arguing against that.

> Stop expecting politicians to be perfect.

I expect politicians to do their job.

[jungturk]

The charter granted to the business can contain clauses requiring the business to attend to more than just its own returns.

The state or the people grant that charter to the business, with the benefits its confers regarding liability and taxation, so we could decide to do so only if the business commits to the terms.

There's no inalienable right to incorporation in the US constitution - the corporation is a statutory fiction we've all agreed to use.

[John23832]

That charter turns a moral responsibility into a legal one. No one is arguing against holding businesses legally accountable.

[WillyOnWheels]

PG&E was convicted of a felony.

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/26/pge-gets-maximum-sente...

They're not supposed to pass the fine to their customers in any way. I don't believe anything.

[gech]

Business lobbies to prevent enforcement... Also don't forget the revolving door, your dichotomy of politicians vs business is paper thin

[John23832]

The revolving door is a separate issue that I acknowledge is a problem.