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by edblarney 3373 days ago
"It wasn't as cool to work at fast food, and the area was becoming more affluent."

If you walk into a 7-11 in Scandinavia (yes, they have some there) - esp. in a small town - you'll sometimes see a drop-dead '10' Swedish model working behind the counter.

Why? Because 'it's normal' for people to do such jobs - as you say - 'when you were young' it was normal.

When those jobs are done by non-citizens, especially of a different ethnicity, then there is a 'stigma' associated with that work, and the social value drops quite a lot.

The notion that 'the area became more affluent' and kids wouldn't do those jobs is a total misrepresentation of reality.

A) If the social context didn't change, then kids would do those jobs.

B) 'They had to hire illegal migrants' is again another lie. As the area becomes more wealthy - guess what - wages are supposed to rise. Yes, that means the price of burgers should rise a little bit as well. But it's again, a total misrepresentation, borderline lie to imply that the 'only way to have service workers is to hire illegal workers'. This is beyond false.

The anecdote you described provides the fundamental basis for the rise of inequality in America.

The notion that 'illegal workers' must be used to support economic activity is obviously unfeasible in the long-term, that somehow growth depends on a class of workers who'll work below the real prevailing wage - and who cannot organize, collect social security, healthcare etc.

No - it's completely upside down.

There are so many places in the world where 'regular kids' continue to work at McDonald's. Wages and benefits are higher, and there is no real social stigma. (Of course, working at McD's is never going to be considered a choice job, but you did it :) )

"I do think something is missing though when kids don't learn what it's like to hold a retail type job dealing with the public."

Yes - I fully agree. Been there.

But a bifurcated society creates stigma and deep 'social class signalling' in these jobs and it destroys the social compact.

Imagine this for a moment: that Obama or Trump gives all illegal migrants instant citizenship with full rights, healthcare, the right to organize labour, social security.

Then guess what happens by the 'illegals are necessary economic logic': McDonald's has to 'fire the new citizens' and 'hire actual, new illegals'!

It's a destructive, unsustainable Ponzi scheme.

Local wages should rise until the jobs are filled.

Some farming jobs just won't work out - those crops can be grown elsewhere.

Yes - we need to treat people with humanity and dignity and there'll always be some people who 'fall through the cracks' - but the systematic importation of illegal workers on a large scale is inhuman.

2 comments

I am appalled by the casual sexism and racism of the parent comment. "esp. in a small town - you'll sometimes see a drop-dead '10' Swedish model working behind the counter" --> Is it okay to refer to a person by a sexist score? Does the HN community condones this and at the same time rally against sexual harassment at statups? How is this comment not dead yet?
There is no mention of gender or race in the parent comment. Here is only your opinion implying only females can be models and that being an illegal immigrant is somehow tied to a race.
I think in Sweden, were this has been changing in big cities in recent years, it's mostly because you can't support yourself in many areas on a 7-11 salary anymore. If you can't get an apartment you can't stay in the area, so there's no young temporary workforce left and people with options aren't going to commute long for a 7-11 job.
The parent comment addresses that:

> As the area becomes more wealthy - guess what - wages are supposed to rise. Yes, that means the price of burgers should rise a little bit as well.

There's just no way salaries can keep up with social changes. Housing prices have doubled in the last 10 years. Salaries are already high and hamburgers expensive in Sweden.

A 19 year old in Sweden would make $14/hour at 7-11. That's around $1900/month after taxes. To double that with progressive taxes you would have to make roughly as much as a fairly well paid software developer here. A rental unit could easily be $1200-1400 and to buy a 330 square feet apartment would cost you around $300k, which is essentially the same as SF. Say you save $500/month then it still takes you more than 7 years just to get the cash contribution. It's not happening.

http://www.valueguard.se/index http://www.economist.com/content/big-mac-index