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by datatan 3381 days ago
> Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don’t want the job

No. Californians don't want the jobs. Americans live in more than just CA, I know a lot of people in CA find this hard to believe but there is a whole world outside of Sillycon Valley.

6 comments

I lived in northwest Arkansas and southwest Missouri for 12 years, until 2009. Not only is this where the Tyson corporation is based, but it's also where one of the highest densities of chicken farms are located.

We lived in a house in an extremely rural area. I made good money doing high tech work at the nearby WalMart Stores, Inc., home office.

Most of our neighbors, for miles in every direction, were pretty poor. Many of them lived in broken down trailers on properties handed down generation after generation. Unemployment was very high.

A kindly, law abiding man who went to our church ran one of the many chicken farms, and had for decades.

The only people he could find to work on his chicken farms were Latinos, many or most of them were probably illegal. They did provide proper documentation, so he wasn't breaking the law by employing them.

I asked him how he ran his farm before the Latinos started arriving 15 or so years earlier. He said that in that time, it wasn't hard to find young people who were happy to do the hard, unpleasant work associated with a chicken farm. He said he hadn't raised his wages past minimum wage since the very beginning.

In fact, he said, the Latinos worked a lot harder than the native locals had.

> Americans live in more than just CA, I know a lot of people in CA find this hard to believe but there is a whole world outside of Sillycon Valley.

While not adding much of anything to this conversation, and being needlessly snarky, I understand the fundamental sentiment here. I live in 'Sillycon Valley'. In many ways, it is quite silly here, and a lot of folks have a rather insular mindset, one that I personally try hard to keep clear of.

I guess Georgians or Alabamans don't want the jobs either? That's weird!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/05/17/the-law-of-...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/alabama-law-drives-out-...

Maybe they can get those senior citizens living high on the hog of Meals On Wheels to get out there and pick crops?

You're linking to articles half a decade old. Have any new data, you since the economy picked up?
Yes which does an even better job of proving the point. When the economy was worse and unemployment was higher, why didn't the huge numbers of unemployed who need jobs take those available jobs? Hmm!
The article indicates a 15-year trend of rising wages, yet we don't see American farmhands flocking to CA, so it seems like a fair headline to me.
> The article indicates a 15-year trend of rising wages, yet we don't see American farmhands flocking to CA, so it seems like a fair headline to me.

That's because you're biased. Its a small trend over a long period of time that doesn't outpace the cost of living. There is also a massive shortage of farmers thanks to big agriculture killing them all off.

Most farmers want to own the land they work. Good luck with that in CA

I'm not a Californian or a farmer.

I read there's a 50% increase in wages, during a period when CPI is up more like 30% in California [0], and I'm saying I agree with the article: it seems like a reasonable economic incentive.

To respond to your comment: isn't a farm worker different from a farmer? I thought the former was someone who does things that require little to no training, like picking grapes, and that these are the people the article references.

0 - http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/LGCentral/DivMeasure/AdjustMeth...

> No. Californians don't want the jobs. Americans live in more than just CA

Yes, but if they wanted the jobs, they'd come to CA for them.

> I know a lot of people in CA find this hard to believe but there is a whole world outside of Sillycon Valley.

Most people in California—who are, after all, themsleves outside of Silicon Valley, which is a small piece of the state—are well aware of that.

What's the equivalent of a $16 Napa salary in Nebraska? I really don't think it's worth moving for.
$16 in Napa is probably $2 in Nebraska. The cost of living there is so much lower than California you can barely compare the two. Homes are 1/10th the price or less.

You can find a nice house in Omaha for $175k that would cost about $2.5 million in Palo Alto for example.

When (if?) Bay Area workers ever figure this out they should telecommute from the midwest.

> Yes, but if they wanted the jobs, they'd come to CA for them.

CA is facing a mass exodus right now. Why on Earth would anyone willingly move there with costs being what they are?

I left 10 years ago and will never go back. I can earn just as much with a cost of living being half of that in any number of states.

> Most people in California—who are, after all, themsleves outside of Silicon Valley, which is a small piece of the state—are well aware of that.

I grew up there and no they aren't aware of it. SV isn't a small part of the state. Its the entire middle of it since hardly anyone who works there can live there. They have to commute for hours from all around.

The other half is in LA county with the same delusions. The populace out side of those areas is tiny in comparison.

> CA is facing a mass exodus right now.

No, it's not. It's facing a slowing rate of inward migration, but it still has net inward migration, not an "exodus" at all, much less a mass one (and a lot of the slowing is part of the national net out-migration of undocumented immigrants—the only a mass exodus involved—offsetting in-migration of others.)

"Figure 1 [0] shows California’s Department of Finance’s (DOF) estimate of domestic migration, migration between California and other states. According to the DOF, California’s domestic migration has been negative in 18 of the past 20 years."

[0] http://www.newgeography.com/content/003584-california-a-worl...

Also, see http://www.sacbee.com/site-services/databases/article3267975...

I think you bring up a good point. The people who need jobs and the people that need to fill jobs live in different places. American mobility is at an all time low for our technological era. How do we get the unemployed Midwesterners into Napa Valley?
> How do we get the unemployed Midwesterners into Napa Valley?

Just a thought:

Government loans with low interest, delayed and income-contingent repayment, and forgiveness after a set period of on-time payments for relocation expenses for unemployed adults with job offers outside of their own immediate area. Getting people to where the work is good for the public fisc, good for employers, and good for the people involved.

But why move people out with large government funding? Why not move some work there?
People are easier to move than agricultural land, and employers with jobs that can be moved easily and realize cost efficiencies by doing that usually get financing to do so (though government programs to incentive moving jobs into depressed areas aren't unheard of.)
That brings up the question, why is work in the metropoli (not a word, apparently, but it should be) of America and not the heartland?
Why is the first instinct of every Democrat/Liberal to have Government subsidize everything? If the wages and cost of living were there people would come. Solve the problem, don't subsidize it and create more problems. Absolutely insane.
According to the story, it sounds like wages and cost of living are already there.
How would they get there if they have no money?
> If the wages and cost of living were there people would come

People who lack assets may not be able to afford to move, even if the wage/CoL balance would favor a different location discounting moving costs. Facilitating that through targeted lending (especially if the recipient would otherwise be drawing public benefits) is win/win/win: good for the government/public, food.for.the employer, good for employee.

Californians are Americans. Central Valley is very different to Silicon Valley. You're the person who connected it to Silicon Valley. There's a whole lot of California outside of and unrelated to Silicon Valley.