[sixQuarks]

I disagree on the supposed "transparency" in vehicle prices these days. That's what they want you to think. KBB has a separate (supposedly more accurate) pricing service specifically for dealers. There is also a ton of shady pricing tactics going on, from manufacturers that advertise bogus entry prices (on vehicles that are not really stocked at dealerships), to dealers that price vehicles with every incentive thrown in (which nobody actually qualifies for). You still have to do a ton of research to figure out what's going on.

[RickS]

> KBB has a separate (supposedly more accurate) pricing service specifically for dealers.

This is correct, in my experience. My credit union had a set of data that was supposedly KBB but had totally different info (and lower numbers) than the consumer website. They also capped their auto loans at 120% of that value, to account for dealership markup.

[ams6110]

There's definitely a wholesale and a retail "book" for used vehicles. The dealer will buy cars at auction at wholesale (or take them in trade, proabably for less than wholesale) and try to sell them at retail.

[user5994461]

Prices are incredibly transparent and accurate.

Made money from buying and selling used cars a long time ago. The business flow died down slowly with the rise of the internet and car estimate sites.

Ultimately people could just go to whatever-site, enter their car model and get an accurate estimate, corrected for year, mileage and maintenance tasks done. There ain't any car bought or sold for 10-20% under or over median value.

[refurb]

Prices are incredibly transparent and accurate.

My understanding is that dealer incentives aren't captured in those transparent prices. And those can add up to several thousand dollars.

That's why if you go to a dealership and say "I'll pay your invoice plus $500", they'll gladly do it since they'll get $5,000 on the backend.

[user5994461]

I used to deal in < 10k€ used cars. That's where there is the most flow. Note that Europeans have much smaller and cheaper cars than Americans.

There never was room for a $5000 margin. The rare multi-k hit became rarer and rarer with the advance of the internet, until it completely disappeared.