[vecter]

> Many of the best programmers I know never even went to college...they are just interested in the subject and taught themselves.

You must not know that many great programmers. I work in Silicon Valley and most of the great programmers I know absolutely crushed college. That doesn't necessarily mean they went to top schools (which it turns out, is not a great predictor of programming skills), but they at least went to college, and most of them majored in a STEM field and performed well academically also.

I have met one or two who didn't go to college and were great programmers also, but they're by far the exception and not the norm.

[adrianratnapala]

Ok, I went to Uni, indeed I did postgrad. But I never studied CS, I think I did two programming subjects in total. Plus some others that simply expected me to know how to program.

The point is that non-CS STEM education doesn't teach programming, it just collects people who learn it on the side. Given the poor abilities of most CS students, I would say the good ones are also people who "learned it on the side".

For a company recruiter, looking for (any) STEM degree is a cheap way of finding such people. But for society, this is inefficient. And unfair on people from poor communities who never get that degree.

[brightball]

To clarify, I know more great programmers that went to college. In my hiring experience, it's more the person than then degree though. In my opinion, most of the guys who I know who went to college would have been just as successful if aimed at the books at given time to study.

Level of interest is what drives learning and in this field that is a huge key.

[vecter]

> To clarify, I know more great programmers that went to college.

That makes much more sense, even from a purely prior probability point of view. Thanks for clarifying that.

I also agree with your point that personal interest and initiative ultimately determines success in this (or any) field.