[frogstomp19]

I really don't agree, as a developer writing predominantly js. It's still pretty standard to compile es6 down to at least es2015 using babel or typescript, meaning js still runs everywhere. I've also literally never met anyone who thinks that callback-structured code is "not a problem". And you can work around issues of "this" and lexical scoping to the point where it isn't as irritating, but it's completely unintuitive to a new js developer, and IMO at least never stops feeling "wrong". There are also a ton of features aside from arrow functions and promises that completely change the way code is written for the better- off the top of my head I use ` string formatting, classes, let/const declarations, and module loading every day.

[erikpukinskis]

> It's still pretty standard to compile es6 down to at least es2015

Yea, but that means if I want to use your library, I need a build chain. It used to be I could just do require("you") or <script src="you"> and be done with it. That's what we lost.

Actually I need n buildchains, one for each npm module I use. And they better all be compatible and target at least one common runtime. And that better be a runtime I am comfortable deploying for my app.

> I've also literally never met anyone who thinks that callback-structured code is "not a problem"

Well here I am. Pleased to meet you. Might I also point you at: http://callbackhell.com There are many of us.

I think what this really shows is how much professional ES6 programmers live in a filter bubble.

This also explains why you think "just transpile" is a reasonable substitute for a simple, run-anywhere language. Professional ES6 programmers think everyone has 40 hours a week of paid time to spend maintaining a build chain.

Javascript+Node used to be one of few languages that you could use without a build system. That's no longer the case. Maybe the loss was worth it to you. Fine. Makes sense. I wish more people would just acknowledge something has been lost, and that amateurs are struggling now at the expense of pros.

[jfaucett]

I agree with a lot of your sentiment. But there's still nothing stopping you from writing ES5 or even ES3 and just ignoring ES6. Thats what we do and it works great for us. And we build extremely high end interactive apps using virtual dom, webgl, etc.

[yomly]

that's really interesting - would love to know more about your JS stack and your project structure?

[djmashko2]

I think you missed that the parent meant that libraries are compiled _before_ publishing. So even if the library is written with ES6 you can simply require it with no build setup.

[erikpukinskis]

Many (most?) libraries are not built that way. There are plenty of libraries that use async in their exports.

[z3t4]

i wish i could upvote you 100 times.

[doctorcroc]

> It's still pretty standard to compile es6 down to at least es2015

...aren't ES6 and ES2015 the same thing?

[dntrkv]

Yeah, they are. People get confused because ES6 === ES2015, "ES7" === ES2016. I sometimes make the same mistake.

[dorfsmay]

If you transpile down to an old version of js, does it matter what language you're transpiling from?

The minute you decide to transpile, you no longer really using javascript, and this discussion isn't really relevant any more.