[hackuser]

> safeguards like attorney-client, priest-penitent, and spousal privilege

Let's add the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, protecting your "papers, and effects" though it's not currently respected. It seems obvious to me that your modern "papers" are what is on your hard drive.

[danielweber]

> It seems obvious to me that your modern "papers" are what is on your hard drive.

And they are protected in your possession. If you turn over all your papers to a third-party, though, that changes things.

eta We may need more privileged communications, but they are very rare. Creating one is probably a good idea, but this will have to happen legislatively. Geek Squad finding child porn isn't much different from the photo processors of old finding it.

[nullc]

> isn't much different from the photo processors of old finding it

You hand your photos over to be processed, but unless you had some photo specific issues, a computer tech has no business accessing photographs on your computer. It is an unexpected invasion of your privacy for them to do so, even if though they have the access to do so.

It's like hiring someone to fix your kitchen sink and then stepping out for a bit and finding them going through your bedroom drawers.

[hackuser]

> they are protected in your possession. If you turn over all your papers to a third-party, though, that changes things

I believe that interpretation is standard for U.S. courts. However, it's not in the wording itself.

(Courts of course, must interpret the law beyond the wording; I fully support that. The law is not an algorithm, and also someone must apply the law to individual situations. Otherwise the First Amendment, for example, would protect slander, threats, shouting fire in a crowded theater, etc.)

I don't like that particular interpretation. It implies the 4th Amendment applies only in your windowless basement, with no communication in or out. That isn't realistic, and is especially unrealistic in the age of the Internet.

[fnordfnordfnord]

>Otherwise the First Amendment, for example, would protect ... shouting fire in a crowded theater,

But that is protected speech, and the SCOTUS case it refers to was overturned long ago because it set a terrible precedent. Holmes used that analogy to support the prosecution and conviction of Charles Schenck under the Espionage Act for writing and distributing a pamphlet that expressed his opposition to the draft during World War I.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/foreign-policy-exception-first-ame...

[hackuser]

I don't know about that case, but if you falsely shout "fire" in a crowded, dark theater, I'm pretty sure you will be breaking the law. It probably would be breaking the law if you did it in a well-lit conference hall. (Whether you are arrested or just thrown out probably depends on if anyone gets hurt, physically or financially.)

[fnordfnordfnord]

[Brandenberg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio) is the case you want to look at. The court held that, to be unprotected “incitement,” speech must meet three requirements. The speaker must intend to cause violence. The violence must be the likely result of the speech. And the violence must be imminent. So, if equivalent circumstances are established, yes, the shouter might well be in trouble.

Before you quote the "fire in a theater" precedent again, please go and look up [Schenck](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States) as well, since that's the origin of the quote, and because it's apparent that there is very little distance between "speech that will cause immediate harm to people isn't protected" and "speech criticizing wars isn't protected when we're at war" when you're a SCOTUS chief justice.

[dredmorbius]

If the container for those papers (computer net of storage and access systems) fails, what recourse does the individual have?

Best Buy here are pretty much shooting their own trusted basis straight through the heart here.

Paper records don't have a strong tendency to suddenly become unreadable, requiring expert technical assistance. Computerised record storage systems somewhat moreso.

[Spooky23]

This is a great example of why these issues are complex.

There's some argument that when you store things in a cloud provider or mailbox that the service is an extension of you.

But if you hand over a file cabinet full of papers to someone and give them the key so they can fix the drawers, that's a different situation. The PC in a repair shop in analogous.

[CamperBob2]

The government sees the Fourth Amendment as a bug, and they have come up with various ad-hoc patches for it. The applicable "bug fix" here is that you give up your Fourth Amendment rights when you turn your property over to a third party for repair, storage, or safekeeping.