[u_wot_m8]

>"As of October 2014 the CIA was also looking at infecting the vehicle control systems used by modern cars and trucks. The purpose of such control is not specified, but it would permit the CIA to engage in nearly undetectable assassinations."

Reminds me of the reporter who was supposedly working on a massive investigation and then died in a flaming car crash while skipping town. Forgot his name

[struct]

Michael Hastings? [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_(journalist)

[knowaveragejoe]

While the above is certainly plausible(killing someone with a car), I highly doubt this is the case here:

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-michael-hastings-crash-car...

[6nf]

I'm sorry but that thread doesn't debunk this at all

[knowaveragejoe]

Is there a specific claim there that says to you it isn't debunked?

[6nf]

At the time former US National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counter-terrorism Richard Clarke told The Huffington Post the crash was “consistent with a car cyber attack”.

“There is reason to believe that intelligence agencies for major powers [know how to remotely seize control of a car],” he said.

[knowaveragejoe]

Quite late, but that was never in question. The issue is whether this was. Also, a source on the exact quotation would be nice.

[digler999]

While I don't think the CIA is above killing a US citizen on US soil (you know, for "security" or something), I don't think they need to hack a vehicle to do it, nor would they want to draw the unnecessary speculation and attention. I would expect antics like that to be reserved for high-ranking foreign officials or other hard-to-reach people. If there's one thing that agency should be expected to excel in, it's untraceable targeted killings.

[fnordfnordfnord]

> I don't think they need to hack a vehicle to do it,

The CIA has multiple ways to cause a death. No doubt about that. They don't "need" to use any particular method, but if they want to kill someone, that have to choose at least one method.

>nor would they want to draw the unnecessary speculation and attention.

What unnecessary speculation and attention? Is LAPD going to bust out their JTAG debuggers, and compare the collection of firmwares in Hastings' car to a clean sample? Practically nobody believes that the CIA/US gov't killed Hastings by hacking his car. Given the propensity for most Americans to never even consider a thing once its been labeled as a conspiracy theory, I'd say that gives about as good a cover as the CIA (or whomever) would ever need. We already have people hypothesizing this as the manner of Hastings' death; but do we see any apparent effort to dispute/disprove it? No, simply chuckle and call it a conspiracy theory. It will go away on its own without regard to whether it was in fact a conspiracy.

>I would expect antics like that to be reserved for high-ranking foreign officials or other hard-to-reach people.

The spies have to perfect their craft somehow. Where is it written that a method of assassination must vary by the apparent importance of the proposed victim?

[digler999]

why would they resort to elaborate techniques to do so when they could have someone walk up and pick him off with a gun or poison or just have him "disappeared"? You're saying instead they chose a method that requires a sophisticated firmwmare hack that may not even work (just gunning the engine is no guarantee it will kill the man), installing it, and then finding an appropriate time and place to deploy it (while also putting other bystanders at risk). To me it seems quite a stretch. I would prefer Occam's razor on this. I think a more likely scenario is he was being surveilled (and possibly even intimidated) by feds, which led to his anxiety and paranoia (which has been established). Then he got spooked that night, thinking someone was following him (and he may have been right), and flipped out and overreacted. It's also possible his accelerator stuck and he didn't react correctly/in time. Look at my comment below: I'm not saying feds wouldn't kill a US citizen, I just dont think they chose to hack the firmware in this case.

As an aside, I"m not familiar with his car but I find it hard to believe that neither the ebreak, main break, ignition, nor transmission lever (assuming it was auto) could mitigate his situation. I think they would have to hack more than just firmware, since there are mechanical linkages and/or hardware interlocks on some of those components.

[fnordfnordfnord]

Read very closely. I'm not saying they did anything. I never said "they" did anything; but rather just that I don't find any of your reasoning convincing, for the reasons I mentioned. I do think it is a plausible attack.

>why would they resort to elaborate techniques

Spy agencies in general, and the CIA in particular are infamous for concocting and using elaborate sometimes down right goofy techniques to assassinate people, and also for periodically failing at the job. This isn't just hyperbole, or me reading too much spy fiction, it's in the public record if you care to look.

>I'm not saying feds wouldn't kill a US citizen, I just dont think they chose to hack the firmware in this case.

I don't really think they did either, it's extremely unlikely. But I won't rule it out because I haven't seen any convincing reason to do so.

>As an aside, I"m not familiar with his car but I find it hard to believe that neither the ebreak, main break, ignition, nor transmission lever (assuming it was auto) could mitigate his situation. I think they would have to hack more than just firmware, since there are mechanical linkages and/or hardware interlocks on some of those components.

If you care to look into it I think you'll find it to be plausible to take control of the car's accelerator, and steer it with the brakes. In principle it's possible with any car that has electronic ABS, and electronic fuel injection and throttle. On some models, advanced features could simplify the job quite a bit. That's not to say that a quick-thinking person couldn't survive the attempt either, by applying the brake, or shifting the transmission or something.

[rattray]

Given the relatively low amount of public scrutiny/outrage/attention/fear that this death caused, wouldn't you say that the car technique would be effective? (whether or not it was used in this case)

[digler999]

It's effective at taking a life. However I disagree that the fallout was "relatively low", compared to even a badly staged suicide, or "gang violence", "road rage", or a "botched robbery". IIRC a democratic organization employee was recently slain in DC from a "botched robbery" or something and nobody blinked an eye except in the more fringe communities. To me, that's how you snuff someone out, or OD them on insulin and have an official coroner report say "natural causes". I think a fiery single car crash at top speed is a pretty high profile event, almost up there with polonium poisoning.

[u_wot_m8]

seth rich, killed execution style, nothing stolen, reported a robbery. Assange implied he was the source of the DNC leaks

[1001101]

I had the same thought. Rest in peace.

[mikeyouse]

I can't believe this meme won't die -- it's so incredibly disrespectful to his family. Honestly no better than the Sandy Hook Truther bullshit.

Michael Hastings was a recovering alcoholic and meth-abuser whose brother, Jonathan, had flown into town the day before because he suspected that Michael was having a manic breakdown similar to the ones he had in the past. Jonathan had been called to LA since several of Michael's coworkers had reached out about his mental state.

After spending the day with Michael, Jonathan called their third brother to come help get Michael back into rehab. That brother arranged to fly out the next day but that night, at 4:30am, Michael snuck out of his apartment and crashed his car into a tree at very high speed.

Here's what Jonathan Hastings thinks about his brother's death:

I really rule out foul play entirely. I might have been suspicious if I hadn’t been with him the day before he died. After all, he definitely was investigating and writing about a lot of sensitive subjects. But based on being with him and talking to people who were worried about him in the weeks leading up to his death, and being around him when he had had similar problems when he was younger, I was pretty much convinced that he wasn’t in danger from any outside agency.

https://www.salon.com/2013/11/05/michael_hastings_life_and_d...

[djsumdog]

That doesn't explain the photos of the car's aftermath.

I mean, it's just as likely people pressured his family to say this (either organized crime or the government .. really the same thing).

It's not dying because it's highly suspicious and the narrative doesn't fit, the news reports are conflicting and much of the evidence is gone.

[mikeyouse]

> That doesn't explain the photos of the car's aftermath.

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? I take it you're an experienced crash-scene investigator?

How exactly would an accident scene differ if the accident were caused by a CIA-backed exploit vs. your standard high speed crash?

> I mean, it's just as likely people pressured his family to say this (either organized crime or the government .. really the same thing).

No, it's really not just as likely. In fact it's not likely at all.