[Steko]

> we should have the right to repair/hack our own devices

No people should demand the devices they buy be repairable and if enough people care that's where the market would follow. When it comes to rights I think companies should have the right to sell devices that are not user repairable. I also think consumers have the right not to be ripped off on first party repairs but that's a problem with multiple solutions e.g. audits and penalties.

[cmurf]

There are all sorts of examples of closed and anti-competitive and collusive markets. So no, it is false to say "if enough people care...the market would follow". That doesn't always happen, there have to be many buyers and sellers first off, and we don't have a competitive market in smart phone software or hardware at all.

I'd also argue culture has made owning a mobile device a function of being socially acceptable. It's more weird today to go to a bar and say, "yeah I left my phone at home on purpose" than to say "yeah I'm an atheist" 20 years ago. So it's quite nearly socially unacceptable to not have a mobile phone.

Understand that the U.S. is a liberal democracy, a constitutional democracy, and its constitution prescribes quite a number of things including the power of the people to define an economic system and the means to regulate it. Market failures are why we get legislated alternatives. You can dislike it all you want, but some fairy tale notion of either capitalism or free markets is not a requirement of this government's founding documents.

[Steko]

> we don't have a competitive market in smart phone software or hardware at all

Wait what? The smartphone market has plenty of competition. If being user-repairable was an important feature to consumers there would be lots of phones that delivered it.

> I'd also argue culture has made owning a mobile device a function of being socially acceptable.

I'm not sure what you're arguing against.

> the U.S. is a liberal democracy, a constitutional democracy, ... the power of the people to define an economic system and the means to regulate it ... You can dislike it all you want,

Now you're really straw manning me as some sort of libertarian utopian who's against democracy (both false), Here is what I said:

"I think companies should have the right to do X."

That is quite clearly not a statement about legal or constitutional realities, it was a response to grandparents own made up right (to repair). The constitution allows for all sorts of things that are bad ideas. At one time it allowed the owning of humans as chattel slaves. More recently and relevantly it can compel companies like Apple to compromise the security of their devices in various ways. The Nebraska bill touches on this in a smaller but not insignificant way as part of the world class chain of security in current iphones is the touch sensor and third party replacement of the sensor breaks this chain. So yes the government has the right to force Apple to provide parts/specs/whatever. Is that a good idea? I don't think that's clear at all.

You've also invoked market failure in this case with zero evidence that it exists in the smartphone market. I'd bet that repair revenue is a rounding error to Apple and they likely take a loss overall. And if market failure does exist (and it might well for tractors which are 90% of the article's focus) there are also other avenues for correcting that failure.

[DarkKomunalec]

A few counterarguments:

1. When their demands are not heard, people use the law instead, i.e. "If you want to do business on our land, you have to play by our rules."

2. "if enough people care that's where the market would follow" - there are so many counterexamples to this I have no idea how you were able to type the words. The 'market' (corporations) will use the substantial information asymmetry and its organizational advantage to steer things in the direction most profitable to it. The way to fight this is through collective action, not by leaving individual consumers to somehow outplay a giant corporation.

3. Patents and copyrights are granted to 'promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts'. Their malicious use, such as restricting the distribution of repair manuals, and preventing the manufacture of replacement parts, could well be grounds for losing them. Demanding they instead be made available for purchase seems like a very reasonable alternative.

[maxerickson]

First revoke all corporations, no limited liability if you want to make consumers fight it out in the market.