[zzzcpan]

"If you're developing software for unsophisticated users it's obvious that you should be doing user testing"

Compilers actually have a unique opportunity to introduce some form of opt-out tracking of all of the compilation errors with sources, etc. This could really help to understand the users.

[Animats]

No, that's not how it's done. Proper testing for computer usability involves video of the user and the screen. The important things to note are when the user stops, gets stuck, has to consult external references, asks for help, or gets upset. It's far too intrusive to impose on anyone not explicitly volunteering to do it.

[spangry]

Unfortunately I have but only one upvote to give. This is very important if you're performing a usability / ergonomics study. Context matters a great deal. The parent poster is also quite correct about it being invasive: although not absolutely necessary, ideally you'd observe the user in whatever context they happen to use Rust (e.g. at their workplace or in their home). Lab studies are still valuable too, but you might miss some context due to the artificial setting.

[steveklabnik]

We have discussed doing this in the past, actually. Opt-in (oops, had "out" here initially) is very important here!

I am not sure if it's something that ever landed or not...

[IanCal]

Opt-in tracking, I really hope you mean. I know the concerns with getting unrepresentative samples but sending what I'm working on to a third party is something that would immediately stop me using an entire language for any form of my work.

[steveklabnik]

gah! Yes, I mean "we would never consider tracking you without your express given consent." That's opt in not opt out.

[IanCal]

:) Thought that was the case, seemed odd that people were saying it like it was such a small deal!

[zzzcpan]

It doesn't have to be strictly opt-in or opt-out. There could be two versions released, a version without tracking could live on the same release page, just a bit lower and not in a bold font or something like that, pushing new users towards the version with opt-out tracking.

[rossng]

This is a dark pattern. Why would you want the default to be a compiler that essentially spies on your code? I can think of no better way to make developers (not to mention businesses!) uncomfortable with the idea of adopting Rust.

Thankfully, Mozilla is one of the few entities left in the technology industry that seems to care about ethics. I don't believe the Rust team would ever do something like this.

[zzzcpan]

No, it's not a dark pattern, you have a clear choice, just one being less advertised than the other one.

And Mozilla is the one with opt-out of all of the unethical features in Firefox. They have no ethics, looking like they care about those things is nothing more, but PR. After all, corporations are not people.

[arjie]

Is there a mailing list I can subscribe to that will tell me when I can turn this on? I'm hoping not to have to listen to rust-dev for the trigger phrase.

[steveklabnik]

I don't know off the top of my head because it's been a while since we talked about it and I haven't paid super close attention to rustup's development. I am assuming that we would make an announcement on the blog because we'd want to be very clear about what's going on, and of course, try to convince people to opt in :)

[deegles]

How about opt-out on nightly builds and opt-in on production?

[steveklabnik]

I don't personally think opt-out is ever acceptable for this kind of thing.

[MaulingMonkey]

Yeah, I'd really prefer not to have to remember to opt out of accidentally violating my NDA when working on closed source projects.

[glangdale]

My comment crossed with the GP post here, but that's a really good idea. Please look into it!

[Too]

With good auto completion, the user should never even have to press the compile button or hit a compiler error. (Slight exaggeration)

This means the user might have struggled a long time with the code before even hitting the compile button. If you only collect statistics from compilation you will miss all this pre-struggle.

[bsaul]

Was about to post the same idea. This should most definitely be the number 1 step for the whole "simplification" project. Take all the advice on how to build a start up by focusing on data points, and apply it to a programming language.